Shattered Kingdoms

To start, technically there is indeed a diffirentiation between the singing and dancing effects, they just have the same name is all. It should say like "you feel drowsy" and "you feel more drowsy" or something, but the effects ARE actually more powerful when dancing.

Edit: What Salak said for the above, I posted moments after him.

And the whole agrument i've had all along about nerfing bards this way is that while yes, it may make group combat more fair or something, it will ALSO make bards even more worthless solo, and alot more easier to kill...which they really don't need to be.

This isn't going to make bards easier to kill.

People who are easy to gank just do not adhere to the principles of getting the hell out of dodge when things go sour.

Survivability is not linked to the power of songs of sleep, otherwise every other class would be fodder.

Every other class has other spells/skills to help them survive. Songs are the bards way.

Sorc: Charmie
Necro: animate/control
Warlock: elemental/stone skin/resist elements/ironguard
Rogue: shield block/hide/more hp then bards
Scouts: camo/shield block/more hp then bards/strong pets
merc/barb: heavy armor, massive hp
Hellion/paladin: Heavy armor, Word of Recall
Swash: eparry/finesse/2 weapons/more hp then bards
Priest/Shaman: Massive buff spells, more hp then bards.

What do bards have to substitute for all this? Songs.

rogues and scouts don't have more hpz than bards.

You seriously misplace the use of your stats and skills too. I can think of several ways to kill any of your characters that are of those classes right now, should I ever encounter them.

But this is about songs of sleep, it's not going to protect you from a massive gank squad of doom.

Actually I'm pretty sure (not positive) but I think they do. From what I've seen so far my HPs are more on par with a sorc then with a scout/rogue.

songs of sleep should also be the master level song for bards with the multitude of effects it has.

I'll agree with that sure, no songs are useful for leveling, and PK is only really viable at master anyway.

Hellions and paladins do not have massive hps. They are equal to that of a cleric. I have, at most, 500-550 hps on my hellion. Yes, the heavy armor and huge amount of MP makes it look like some have more, but they don't. Their main defense for escape? Word of recall.

All adventurers have the same hp base. Just as all clerics do. Just as all warriors do.

The only exception I've EVER seen to this is warlocks who seem to get adventurer hps.

I don't like having more than 1 character at a time, but do not make me level up a bard to show you how much trouble they can be.

God forbid if one of them is a harlequin too.

Yeaa god forbid. I'm so scared. I don't believe I ever started complaining about bards being underpowered, hell I don't even remember anything anywhere I don't have enough survivability. All I said that was if songs were nerfed, specifically songs of sleep to the point of uselessness, YES bards would SUCK BALLS. I happen to like my bard in its present state, I just don't think that the class could suffer any major hits to its survivability, like making -all- of songs of sleep have a save, half of it I could live with.

I'm just pointing out that bards would not be nerfed into the floor if SoSleep had a saving throw associated with it.

I will always, always prefer to group with a bard rather than just myself. And as for bards being unable to attain all this help -- I get it all from a character who is an absolute [REDACTED] to everyone he encounters and has zero utility value (unlike a bard). Several priests enchant and brew for me, so I can not imagine they would not do for a competent bard. They'd be even more willing, I'd assume.