Weapon subtypes

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:47 pm

Sypher wrote:

1. Does weapon speed affect anything at all, other than the amount of attacks you get with the weapon?

Pretty much just number of attacks.

Sypher wrote:

2. Does accuracy have a cap? Or could you hypothetically get so much accuracy that you parried every attack and never missed an attack? (I know this isn't possible, but hypothetically speaking)

There's no hard cap but there's only a limited number of ways to improve accuracy, so there's an effective cap. Also, when parrying in particular, your accuracy is pitted against an opponent's accuracy, so it's relative.

Sypher wrote:

3. Is weapon speed relative based on the number of attacks a class gets? Or is it simply standardized across the board?

Think of weapon speed as being how many attacks per round your weapon is capable of making. But without the training to make multiple attack per round, a high weapon speed is just unused potential.

Sypher wrote:

4. Swashbucklers only get 2nd attack. They gain 4 attacks by attacking twice with each hand. Does this mean that they can use really slow weapons like longswords and still get 4 attacks easily? 2 with the mainhand, 2 with the offhand? Or do they still need to use exceptionally fast weapons to get all 4 attacks?

You do need to have a high speed weapon in the off-hand in order to get those extra attacks as a swashbuckler.

WarlordPayne · **Joined:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:55 pm **Posts:** 594

Gremlin24 wrote:

This might be from another game (I'm so tired I can't remember), but I think I have read somewhere that you can only parry and/or riposte as much as you can attack. That is to say, very slow weapons mean less of either of those skills.

Do you play Neverwinter Nights? I'm pretty sure that's a limitation on the parry skill in that game but I don't ever recall seeing it mentioned in relation to SK.

Cyra · **Joined:** Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:56 am **Posts:** 1858

Gremlin24 wrote:

This might be from another game (I'm so tired I can't remember), but I think I have read somewhere that you can only parry and/or riposte as much as you can attack. That is to say, very slow weapons mean less of either of those skills.

That would be a dreadful change to the system and would make the parry and other skills next to useless, effectively making the swashbuckler and mercenary classes a lot weaker than they are now.

Gremlin24 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:32 am

WarlordPayne wrote:

Do you play Neverwinter Nights? I'm pretty sure that's a limitation on the parry skill in that game but I don't ever recall seeing it mentioned in relation to SK.

Yes, that's probably it. :oops:

Stupid insomnia. Don't mind me.

Muktar · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:38 pm

I still think that type of material should affect dmg. and the other three categories. It is pretty lame that a wood wpn should ever compare equally to a metal one (maybe except for speed . . .maybe).

Goldlantern · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:04 pm

No, we've been here before. Material type should have nothing whatsoever to do with damage. What I could see it affecting is damage TYPE. Which to some extent, it already does.

Sypher · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:20 pm

Goldlantern wrote:

No, we've been here before. Material type should have nothing whatsoever to do with damage. What I could see it affecting is damage TYPE. Which to some extent, it already does.

Why shouldn't it?

Goldlantern · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:32 pm

Well for one, A sword is a freaking sword. There's a saying in asian cultures about how death can come even by the wooden sword. The only thing material really changes, is durability. A folded steel katana, will hurt just as badly as a damascus steel katana - if such a comparison could be made. But, in the magical world of sk, I could totally see adamantite having an extra "magical damage" tacked on to it. But then again, I've been playing to omuch of neverwinter nights, myself.

Sypher · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:43 pm

I'm sure plenty of Asians have been killed by wooden swords. I'm also sure a whole hell of a lot more have been killed by swords of a better material than wood.

The point is, a wooden sword just isn't going to cut as effectively as a steel or better material sword. Even your example of a folden steel sword vs a damascus steel katana could be used. While the difference in damage and will be far less than comparing wood to steel. You can still achieve a sharper edge on folded steel than you can damascus steel, allowing for greater ease of cutting.

That for example is one of the leading reasons that diamond scalpels, or at least diamond edged scalpels are used in surgical procedures instead of just plain steel, they can hold a far more "honed" edge, than a steel scalpel can, allowing for less pressure required to make an incision and a much smoother, cleaner cut. Here's a paragraph taken from a diamond scalpel manufacturer.

Quote:

The SPI Supplies Brand Diamond Scalpel Blades
Produced from the finest quality natural diamonds, these blades are extremely sharp, requiring minimum pressure for penetrating and precision cutting without the distortion normally associated with the use of stainless steel and other materials. Titanium handles make these knives lightweight, perfectly balanced and corrosion resistant for long life. Safe to sterilize up to 140° C ( 284° F).

Material Hardness, Radius of Curvature, and Distortion There is a bit more to the story on "distortion" because it all boils down to radius of curvature at the edge. We are talking about the very end of the edge, not the "angle" normally reported in the knife specifcations. For example, if we are talking about diamond knives for ultramicrotomy with a 35° angle, the radius of curvature is the measurement at the actual edge. The smaller the radius of curature, the "sharper" the cutting edge. And the sharper the edge, the lower the forces needed for cutting which of course results in minimal distortion and other damage at the cut surface.

So now we come to the reason for diamond and not some other hard material, such as tungsten carbide or silicon carbide. The smallest possible radius of curvature in any material is a function of its hardness, the harder the material, the smaller the smallest radius of curvature possible in that material.

And therefore the advantage of diamond becomes much more clear: A smaller radius of curvature can be produced in diamond than in any other material, since after all, diamond is the hardest material known. And that is why diamond translates into substantially lower cutting forces, resulting in far lower distortion than would otherwise be possible. This advantage is at once evident when cutting most tissue samples.

I really see no reason why a copper falchion should do as much damage as the Volriani Blade(an adamantite falchion), or why a steel pike, should do as much damage as the Mottled Lance(adamantite lance) it makes no sense, in either world, and completely diminishes and takes away from the whole "legendary mystique" that those weapons carried around with them for so long. Now they're just ordinary old weapons, which really aren't any better than there regular old tanso steel counterparts. Why even bother with them?

Sypher · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:50 pm

I'm bumping this because I think I brought up some valid points, that nobody really seemed to refute.

It doesn't even have to be a ton of damage tiers, you can still keep it a lot closer than it was in the past. You could have like 3-4 tiers.

Tier 1(crappy damage)
Wood, rubber, leather, etc...

Tier 2(Average damage)
Copper, Brass, Bronze, Iron, Steel, etc...

Tier 3(Above average damage)
Tanso Steel, Cold Iron, Water, Fire.

Tier 4(Superb damage)
Mithril, Diamond, Adamantite, Energy.

It makes perfect sense. Steel can be sharpened to a much finer edge/point than wood can, and the same goes for diamond when comparing it to steel.

And I'm not suggesting that it be like the old days, where copper weaopns could barely penetrate leather, and adamantite weapons destroyed barbarians in 4 rounds. The difference can, and should be much smaller this time, but it should still be noticeable, and their should still BE a difference.

By lumping weapons made of flame/cold iron, into the the third tier, you are also giving the game a much needed boost by making racial weaknesses not so overly debilitating as they are now. Racial weaknesses are completely far to crippling in my opinion as they are right now. So by lowering the damage on weapons made of flame for instance, they'll still do slightly more damage against a centaur than an adamantite weapon would, so still be perferable to use, but no longer the huge overkill amounts that they do now, since you dropped them a tier. Same with Cold Iron, still be perferred against races with weakness against it, but only by a small amount.

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Weapon subtypes

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