Shattered Kingdoms

Who is Nightfall, Alex?

Interesting idea, though honestly, it'd be almost pointless for shamans to get something like this IMO, shamans seriously do not need anything, except for maybe TO BE ABLE TO CAST CALL LIGHTNING AT RANGE IN THE WILDERNESS!?!?!?.

Be nifty for Hellions who do indeed need something to be on par with Pallies, IMO.

At first I thought about making it hellion only - but then I had visions of the mortal kombat shamanistic character "Nightwolf", and his bound tomohawk.

While it would be a cool ability to have, shamans really are fine, and it's not too hard to get an axe, not that shamans even really need one. ALL THEY NEED(not really need, but what I want ) IS TO BE ABLE TO CALL LIGHTNING AT RANGE IN THE WILDERNESS!?!?!?

Can on the other hand be a bit difficult to get a landie/greataxe/flamberge or whatever as a hellion though, I'd suppose.

I think it was nightfall and the dagger of vengeance.

Edit: whoa, i left this open at work and then responded a while later only to see that summ had already posted. NVM!

As a hellion, armor is really not that hard to find. I can think of quite a few sets out there that are tanso and are in many multiples. Tanso properly worked is just about as good as addy. So if you are really worried about that I wouldn't. Weapons are a bit of a bigger pain. Good landy are hard to find. I don't think awsome gear that cannot be removed is going to help the gap between hellions and paladins.

If you look at their skill/spell sets right off the bat paladins get 2 extra spells. The next level it is 4. And for the most part it stays at a nice gap for a while. I can single out all of the paladins best skills and pit them vs the entire skillset of hellions.

Call Armor, Holy Word, Bolt of Glory, Spear of Faith, Flamestrike(ranged), disarm(I never got this skill on a pally some thought makes it ok but really.), any healing spell and the nimbus effect>hellion skills. And we are talking about the same cleave intimidate dominate hellfire and hide skillset. Because those are really the only spells and skills that cant be done away with. I mention hide because paladins cannot detect for it thankfully. All the maledicts a paladin can cure, and they can cure them while fighting because they are beastly like that and seem to have more tankability no matter where they put their stats.


Hellions need a ranged spell, they need an equivalent of Holy word if not holy word itself. Changing those two things would really make a difference. Perhaps give them something like their own religion spell that has a different ranged effect. Like Algorab could have a fear effect or fear itself, Ain could have some sort of disabling spell for bring order, Sargas could have some sort of meteor strike spell.

My one and a half cents.

Hellions could use some work to balance them with paladins, that much is clear. This, however, isn't it. Nor are your suggestions. The only exception I can see is the inclusion of a need for a ranged spell despite the fact that you promptly seemed to forget that mention and moved on to list spells like fear and some crazy idea that hellions should get religion-specific spells.

Really, this is rightly put in another thread entirely, but I think giving hellions flamestrike (or nerfing the damage of hellfire and giving it a range like flamestrike has), a Bolt of Darkness (similar to a bolt of glory but, like, not), and self-target only healing spell that's on par with cure critical (call it Dark Rejuvination or some such) will nicely level the playing field.

Hellions and paladins don't need to have the same stuff, e.g. bolt of darkness, no, and nerf hellfire? Hellfire really does not do much of anything to anyone with a decent suit from what I've seen, though it will screw elves and centaurs I'm sure and anyone without a decent suit. Do hellions get crossbow, or not? There's range.

DIVERSIFY, don't make them the same. And yes, I myself have recommended stuff like giving Hellions HW and what not before, but I realized the errors of my ways!

Hellions should not be "equals" with Paladins. Paladins are holy killing machines. Paladins can kill Dark priests, Hellions, and Necromancers.

That's it. The end.

Hellions have a very good shot against any race/aura/class. Didn't Seram prove this a few years ago? And he wasn't even invested.

It's true, hellfire is utter crap vs. anyone with any sort of mp/saves - however, crossbow really isn't 'range'. A hellion, like a necromancer, is only devastating when they're in room with someone.

The three changes I'd make are:

1) Take dodge away from paladins, give them enhanced parry (note, this is a buff)
2) Give hellions slow and have it castable on a weapon.
3) Give both hellions/paladins the ability to create symbols.