Shattered Kingdoms

Which species?

Looks like the help file's been touched up a bit since I last checked. Ah well. I'll withdraw "altruistic" - along with a chunk of my interest in ever playing another one.

I still believe griffons are far less socially dependent than humans, and that it's natural their "office politics" are a little weak. I agree that, in theory, neither this or their limited communication should be held against them when working with each other. But that requires a little more coding effort than improving the max CHA.

Crows, which are arguably scavengers, but they also hunt other birds in flocks.

Also, there's a species of..hawk (I'm tempted to say eagle, but I'm more sure it's hawk)..I believe, that works in flocks. They're marine hunters, and use flock tactics to maximize efficiency when taking on schools of fish.

As an aside...



Oh noez! The help file doesn't mandate that I play a race a certain way and therefore I will never want to play one again! That's pretty weak buddy. It's not like the help file specifically states that you *can't* play an altruistic griffon.

OA, if all the other races were essentially humans in different skins and stats, what would be the point in role-playing any of them?

In this case, one of the defining concepts of an SK griffon got deleted, for no apparent reason. You're welcome to cheer if it pleases you, but I'm also free to express my disappointment.

In the end, in a human-like species world (all races in SK have a similar to human face, and this is where I do understand and agree with Forsooth) charisma IS determined on how much you can understand and interpret the other's expression. It IS one more reason why griffons can not have high charisma in such a world.

Even in real life, you can see a puppy that might make you like it or not. But again, it's not because the puppy is charismatic. It's because its facial "shapes" and features remind you of certain human expressions. It's called anthropomorphism and it's the way WE humans translate a puppy's expression according to our own experience of human expressions (and more than often it's completely wrong of course).

Once again, no. Charisma is not determined by outside factors, otherwise you would never be able to raise it or even have it as an individual character. You would only get it as you gained friends and associates if it were determined by outside factors, which is not the case, you gain it individually and possess it whether you've greeted anyone or not.

The argument that an individual's charisma is determined by the number of people who like them or can "understand their body language" is completely and totally invalid.

You are trying to convince us all that charisma is irrelevant to one's social skills? You have to be joking. It's obvious that charisma IS relevant to these things, and in a world that can not even understand you well, you can not be charismatic. It's not called a SOCIAL skills for nothing.

Are you purposefully not reading what I write, or are you just mistaken? I'm really confused at this point, because I've been really bloody clear. Let me quote the pertinent part:



Let me explain what that means:

Charisma exists whether the people you use it on (or even whether you use it on people) like you or happen to appreciate your brand of charisma. IT IS NOT DETERMINED BY HOW MUCH PEOPLE LIKE YOU, ACCEPT YOU, AGREE WITH YOU, OR OTHERWISE APPRECIATE YOU. Charisma, especially as it is described in the SK help file for the same, is representative in large part of mental dynamism, or the ability to think adaptively.

I have in no way, shape, or form said that charisma does not have an impact on social interaction. Not *once* have I said that. I have said that social interaction does not have an impact on CHARISMA. Do you see the difference?

Once more, and hopefully for the last time, the reason that the "griffon and humanoid non-verbal language is different" argument against this cha increase is TOTALLY INVALID is because, first, that non-verbal communication does not determine the existence or non-existence of the griffon's charisma, and second, because intergriffon communication is perfectly understandable. Neither form of communication though, whether intergriffon or interspecies, has any determining power over the existence or level of charisma in question. The communication is the CONTEXT in which charisma is used, not the ORIGINATING FACTOR that determines its existence.

Do not make me explain this again, because I'm running out of small words to use to do so.

Look at what charisma is in the help file. See the very first sentence:

"Charisma is the measure of the character's social skill, leadership, ability to perform for a crowd, and make new friends."

Of course success in getting people to accept you or agree with you is a measure of charisma. You might as well say strength is an internal quality, and how heavy a weight you can lift is irrelevant.

I understand you're using the word charisma differently than that. But that's not relevant to a discussion of whether griffons should have low charisma as the game defines it.

I love griffons.

No. No. No.

Griffons do not need more charisma, and they do not deserve more charisma.

Griffons are not humanoids, and just like centaurs they get bad charisma because they aren't humanoids.