Shattered Kingdoms

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:57 am 
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Dulrik wrote:
The idea doesn't make sense for the reason that JeanValjean posted. Shopkeeper drop their extra money in a vault in their shop. That's where all their items for sale are as well.


Wait, are you seriously going to tell me you are not going to work on a feature to make your economic system worth a damn based on the fact SK lacks passports? You realize it's not too useful in its current incarnation and doesn't allow players to do what you constantly harp on as Sk's best feature: player to player interaction and game play.

Just in case you weren't paying attention: I can conjure fireballs from my [REDACTED] and summon people across realms and detect their true nature of their being. Let's not even mention raising the undead and being able to grow new limbs. What the hell would stop shopkeepers from figuring out where you lived in this magical world?

Secondly, who says being disguised in a certain way wouldn't allow you to purchase items in each country, regardless of stance?

If shopkeepers can stop from being stunned and their 'magical vault keys' from being taken, and return from the dead everytime I pop one for xp -- then I think they can manage to figure out which country you come from because the local law requires it like we require ID to purchase liquor.

Also, here's something to throw a wrench in your logic plan for SK: you can detect poison, aura, alignment, invisible, hidden, and magical. Why the hell couldn't you detect where someone recalls to? Call it detect patronage and have it show (imperial) (zhensh) (ayamao) to shopkeeper mobiles. Badaboom, look, I solved the 'magical problem'.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:07 pm 
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I hate this magical vault thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:28 pm 
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Ironically the bugfix to keep shopkeepers from having their stuff stolen while being stunned was put in to make the economy better. Being able to stun shopkeepers to harvest 150 obsidians made it too easy to gain quick money. This was just a long-running loophole, because their stuff was never accessible when you killed them, only when you stunned them.

I never said I don't want to increase the economic system. I just am not in favor of the idea you proposed. A real embargo would prevent commodities from going one kingdom to another - it generally doesn't have anything to do with individual purchases. I'd actually like to get a trade system in where each kingdom has access to a certain amount of raw materials and they'd have to make up the difference through trade.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:46 pm 
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What you propose will take another few years to get put in, while we realize zero value on it in game.

What I propose even I could code in a weekend and have it working giving much value despite not being perfect.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:18 pm 
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But it's not worth doing in the first place, because it doesn't make any IC sense.

Say you're a Imperial citizen buying something from Nerina. How does the Imperial government know to tax you, and how can they collect if you don't feel like paying? Or if the taxes are being collected by the Talons, why are they sending money to the Empire?

Or take the case of embargo. I'm not buying that every shopkeeper in the world is a spellcaster with this new "detect kingdom" spell. And even if they were, why would they care if a customer's foreign nation wants to prevent a trade? It's not their law. The whole situation is reversed.

If a tribunal wants to embargo goods, it can just go kill everyone who's holding them without a license. Locate object works fine, and I've seen warnings of such activities many times. If the tribunal doesn't have that level of military might and organization, that's its problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Uh, guys, you have an economic treaty with them, just like a diplomatic treaty. That is what enforces it.

Stop bitching about how the game knows things, the game knows impossible things all the time. This is furthering economic status and in the future can allow dulrik to put in a more complex raw materials trade system.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:30 pm 
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For once, I agree. I am pretty sure that in the empire that everyone has to have some sort of paperwork to ensure their residency. The only place that it doesn't make sense to not have any sort of paperwork is Ayamao. The rest of the countries (not including Uxmal) would have have some sort of paperwork or something else, that would mark them as a resident of that nation.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:35 pm 
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Sinnoch wrote:
Uh, guys, you have an economic treaty with them, just like a diplomatic treaty. That is what enforces it.


If the treaty is mutual, and both sides are honest, sure. The first is contradicted by letting one country unilaterally shift to a taxation system. The second, by bothering to glance at these kingdoms we're talking about.

If this system actually added something to the game, maybe I'd be more willing to suspend disbelief. But I'm not seeing any advantage to this. I think tribunals have enough sufficient power already. And if people want to chat around Nerina/Teron instead of spending so much time in the far corners in the world, I see no reason to push them back. (Rah for not being able to buy food/drink/room keys. *eyeroll*)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:59 pm 
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Sinnoch wrote:
Gremlin24 wrote:
I'd be all for this if each country was giving items considered worth buying and at least had the nessesary items (read: decent armor, weapons, and vials/scrolls/staves). It may be a knee-jerk reaction, but my first thoughts on this are hell no unless the north actually has something to sell. If they don't, they're forced to either buy from a non governed source or from the empire so long as they aren't at war. This means they cannot stimulate their own economy, only feed other economies.

Also, this means that their economy will suffer wars much harder, as there is nothing attractive enough to make people want to head to the north to buy it. If this was implimented the way things are, you could very easily watch the economy bleed out. Then again, it should have already be in the dumps, and would be rock bottom if people didn't buy so much soup. :P


Are you serious? Re-read what I posted. If citizens are forced to buy from other locations, Krychire GAINS in tax money, which can be trib spent to boost the economy. No one buys ANYTHING in Krychire anyways at the moment, yet, it's one of the richest countries ever. Why? Because no one SELLS things in Krychire, either, as NPCs dump gold.

During a complete embargo of all lands, Krychire then may want to consider that despite the fact it is fairly well defended compared to other cities, it may have to keep economic relations open with a few lands (Zhenshi, Empire, etc). Also, you can buy a lot of things in the north that aren't in the city. Furthermore, this would pressure builders to place decent buyable things in each city/country.

Really, all I can tell you is that the status quo isn't much better and you're benefiting off a half-complete economic system and keeping it crippled because you enjoy the exploitation of not having your economy bled out like every other high-yield country that is constantly having things sold to it, only things bought from it. No one sells jack [REDACTED] in Krychire. No one.


Nobody sells [REDACTED] in the wastes because you're lucky to get 4 silver for the sold item.


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