Shattered Kingdoms

Griffons are food, case closed.

"Granted, a griffbarb can't be as 'elite' as a fully decked human barb, but, naked he can be better than 5 naked human barbs. This sort of benefit is cool enough on its own, I think."

Gm human barbs don't walk around naked, so its silly to suggest there is any sort of comparison between the two. A naked humanGM barb knows that venturing forth with only a backpack and a belt is pretty much suicide. Yet its the only option for a gm griff barb? In this regard I fail to see how griffons come up as anything but short.

N_G

*Edited for tiny bit of clarity*

It's not double.

Disclaimer: I browsed through the thread for immortal comments, but didn't read all of it, apologies if I repeat anything.

I agree with Rial on most accounts.

Consider this; before the implementation of major racial weaknesses, like iron and negative energy, and light/holy, and all the other nonsense that's been thrown around. Elves/Delves were -still- the worst warrior races, and in most cases not stellar casters either. Add in the crippling weaknesses listed above and...well you do the math.

The truth of the matter is, that racial weaknesses are at the moment, far and away more debilitating than any racial bonuses any race recieves.

As far as warrior classes like Rial is talking about, humans and half-elves were already the cream of the crop, with elves and delves left wanting. The implementation of the iron weakness, coupled with the explosion of cold iron weaponry put into the game, made them near unplayable as warrior classes. They already had extremely inferior stats, wasn't that enough?

I'm going to try to not be horribly long winded, so I won't go more into depth than that for the moment. Racial weaknesses need to be looked at very much so however. Humans either need to gain some, or other races need to lose several or gain more powerful racial bonuses.

Sorry, but seriously, getting sneak and detect magic, doesn't make up for your race sucking horribly. The bonuses(if you can even call them that) are so pathetic, when compared to the horrible stats and glaring weaknesses.

All Male characters should be weak vs Boobs.

I agree with chem. My knees buckled when I read that.

The racial weaknesses are fine and perfectly balanced, if your intent is to have the game populated mainly by humans. I've played Shattered Kingdoms for a long, long time (too long, in fact) and this is the first time I've ever seen the human population greater than the other races combined.

Before racial vulnerabilities were actually debilitating and harmful, almost every evil character was a dark-elf or half-elf. The good side didn't fare much better, with the combined elf, sprite and half-elf population outnumbering humans.

If racial vulnerabilities are made less debilitating, you'll see the human population drop and a rise of elves, sprites, half-elves and deep-elves. If you want the non-human population to be greater than the human population, it's a good change. Otherwise, I'd leave things alone.

I'm sure you're right, Finney. I just wish the racial resistances were as strong as the vulnerabilities. If the resistances were more pronounced, then I don't think anyone could gripe about the vulnerabilities, but I don't see them being congruent. I'd just like to see them match up in that way. If resistances don't count very much, then neither should vulnerabilities. If vulnerabilities can be taken advantage of as easily as they can, then resistances should also provide protection from a damage or magic type in as much magnitude as the vulnerability adds to it. Humans are balanced, keep them the same. The types of vulnerabilities make sense to me, I just wish that they matched the strength of the resistances. Its very difficult to take advantage of some racial weaknesses while others are a simple effort. That should also be factored into the magnitude of the vulnerability or resistance.

So, basically:

The players here who understand mechanics agree on the following:

1) Human is the best overall race by now as far as pvp is concerned.
2) If your goal is to purposely imbalance humans so as to make them more popular than the other races, you are doing the right thing.