Shattered Kingdoms

That wasn't really the answer I was looking for.

Thuban even agreed with me!

I haven't read the 'help dogmatic' alignment but I assume its much like the movie Dogma.


Hope this clears things up.

Syndal, do you really think bashing the IMMs in Newbie Help is really that appropriate?

Turtle, think about the basic notions of what the rogue class is built for. They are built to be sneaky, to hide in the shadows, to kill people, to break into places they aren't wanted, and to steal.

Generally, those things are not considered honorable. While theft contests are fun, that's not generally very law abiding or honorable.

I have no problem with sneaky princ/aber. But, picking locks or stealing or stabbing unsuspecting people in the back... nope. My view of principled and aberrant consists of an unwritten code similar to but not as stringent as the knight's code. Even knowing how to pick locks or steal means you've at the very least studied how, and that act of studying how means your mind isn't pure enough to follow the unwritten code.

Okay, truncated, this isn't a place for in-depth philosophy.

Don't think of dogmatic as a moral judgement, as if it were rating a character's goodness or evil. Alignments are all about what a character does, not what we players think of him. Dogmatic is a useful predictor for someone who'll do whatever he's ordered, but will not initiate evil.

I'm not usually much for alignment restrictions on rogues, but I think removing principled/aberrant makes sense. Neither alignment is interested in doing wrong to random people, as someone who steals for a living would. Principled characters seek the good of others unless forced to take negative action. Aberrants are honorable within their code; their evil is done for a greater purpose than personal gain. Getting peple to take the more appropriate alignments of scrupulous and miscreant seems appropriate here.

You can argue that rogues don't necessarily live as thieves and assassins, but that is what ths class concept is built around. I suspect apprentices with such strict scruples don't get very far.

I agree 100%

There's already a light and dark aura version: Principled and Aberrant

Rogues should get Principled and Aberrant. Hands down.

My first character was a principled elven rogue, and although there were times that I may have "fallen out" of alignment due to OOC laziness, I almost always played that way. Just because rogue skills -can- be used in a non-principled or aberrant way doesn't mean they can't be used otherwise.

A principled or aberrant rogue should be possible. I see nothing wrong with backstabbing, hamstringing, circle stabbing, or even stealing from inhumanly evil daemons, evil priests, necromancers, or other such folk whom you have issued a warning to, or picking locks to free imprisoned elven slaves from bondage, or picking Krychire's gates.

And considering the strong similarity between hellion and rogue skillsets, I can barely even believe that rogues cannot be aberrant. Come on people. If rogues could wear heavy armor, their skillset would be nearly identical, except for pick lock and maledictions. Circle stab/hamstring takes the place of hellfire, for damage.

If Hellions are aberrant, rogues can be aberrant. The end. If you disagree, you have obviously never seen a hellion played in SK. Principled, I can see why that got taken away, but considering the fact that paladins charge sleeping people and don't get into any trouble, I don't see how stabbing someone in the back or stealing is any worse.