Shattered Kingdoms

I wasn't saying that though, I was just wondering since I haven't played too many tribunal chars, and I didn't think any of the others had 3 level 45 barb NPCs. And considering barb NPCs can wreck havoc with pretty much anything you stick in their hands, I'd say they're the most valuable melee NPCs you could ask for.

And besides, I wasn't really trying to participate in the discussion, I merely predicted who would... Didn't even read your post.

Lol.

Paladins can actually rape more when it comes to fighting undead(see: Keepers invading NW). But what can I ask for when the theme of NW was changed from necromancy to tribes mainly(it started changing since Kol's Keep was opened, was totally changed during last Bonanza)?

Barbs just fit better to the tribunal RP wise. If you find barbarians overpowered as a class, they need to be wimped.

Jesus christ people we have been over this a million times. Yes, the CoN(screw that black hand BS) and Keepers are completely overpowered. No, the IMMs aren't going to do anything about it, because from what I've seen lately, overpowered is what the IMMs have been aiming for.

The Talons, who are only a Tribunal...Get ONE high level NPC. Three mentor level priests(one of whom is [REDACTED] and doesn't hold spells) and two mentor level sorc NPCs. Then like a bunch of level 30 barb/merc/rogues. Oh yeah, and some mentor level dwarf mercs that either come with a scythe(one of the worst weapons in the game) or naked. And dwarves suck anyways.

All of the other Tribunals need to be downgraded to be on par with the Talons, just give them different variations of NPCs. Like the ONE Keeper high level NPC would be a Paladin, and the ONE CoN high level NPC would be a barb or something.

Edit : Side note, did I see someone say something about the Keepers being underpowered somewhere? wtf...

Yeah, I do want to you compare because if you honestly did you'd see you get far more utility and strength than any other tribunal.

Percer doesn't have unlimited buffs and the timer is like 5 minutes. Not to mention you summon him once and he doesn't hold spells hardly at all anymore once he returns home.

C'mon DA, let's hear about how OP all the other tribunals are. Oh yeah, you don't even know where to begin since they're not. You get everything they do and more.

Your claim it's broken the other way is a classic deny all fallacy.

Actually GoA > Keepers > Hand > Talons, but anyway.

GoA just keep a low profile and most people don't know the awesomeness they are capable of performing.

HUGE EDIT

And since stratford wants me to elaborate, I'll tell him about the Keepers now. Tomorrow I can tell him about GoA also.

Keepers get: Hulking guy, Lazeran, Gervais, Baltus, Chirk as orderable level 45+ NPCs at least. From them Chirk has a script to spawn more peacekeeper law NPCs when in combat, so you actually have endless NPCs with you if you manage to keep him alive long enough for the script to fire.

How do you keep these NPCs alive? You give them equipment. When was the last time you saw any of them dressed in diamond or better armor? When was the last time a 8/8 battlespear was used by them? Hell, Lazeran loads with a full lightie only diamond suit unless it's taken by lighties through request. So given the right preparation these NPCs can be better tanks than any NPC the Black Hand gets(even the famous trio). And they certainly deal more damage than any NPC CoN gets(especially the famous trio that deals crappy damage - read: lack of weapons).

Conclusion? Keepers > Black Hand at tanking/damage output of their NPCs.

Apart from that, they get over 50 master level paladin NPCs spread around the city. What does that mean? Oh right, they have 50+ NPCs to choose and get from them sanctuary, armor, bless, frenzy etc. Yes, that's the common law NPCs of the Keepers, master level paladins who also come dressed up in full MR lightie suits(something no other tribunal gets afaik). Let's compare them to the level 25 council guards the Black Hand gets in the Moot. Better yet, let's not do it. You will look stupid.

Conclusion? Keepers > Black Hand at common law NPCs in all aspects.

On the matter of buffs now, Keepers get at least 1 orderable priest that keeps concentration and 1 orderable healer NPC(Percer, ~level 45) who can keep endless amount of buffs for no mana or concentration upkeep, just with a timer(that's how healer NPCs work). What buffs are readily available to the Black Hand? As it is now, level 25 shield/fly/infravision/armor. That's it. Nothing more. Not a single priest NPC. No way to get frenzy/sanc/anything else but only though charming priest NPCs. That has 3 downsides. First of all, it takes a LOT of effort to get these done. At least 1 hour for getting 2 priests charmed(considering repop times since people whined about charming unique NPCs so BH gets only NPCs that duplicate now). And what can 2 charmed priests do? That brings the second downside, the charm intelligence penalty. They cannot even have enough concentration to cast 1 sanctuary while sitting, even if they are given int mods. And let's not forget the 3rd downside, a single cancellation or remove compulsion spell destroys all the effort done. When all the Keepers have to do is wait for Exile's fast repop to happen and have endless amount of buffs from Percer again. I don't even count here the sorc NPCs the Keepers get.

Conclusion? Keepers > Black Hand when it comes to buffs.

So there you are newbie, I gave you facts that Keepers > Black Hand in all the aspects.

OK, not all. Player wise, Black Hand >>> Keepers.

D-A, take GoA and add them between CoN and Talons, and you'd be right. =/
They get what, an elemental, and like a city full of paladins?

Keepers can be better than CoN if you put some effort in, but as far as grab and go guards the CoN is infinitely better than the others.

Barbarians as a player class are ~okay~, but they're by far the best class for high level guards, since from what I've seen all the merc guards in the game have -horrible- specializes.

The Moot isn't impenetrable, nor are the guards (except the trio of sick HP beasts) much of a problem. What is completely broken and unnecessary, at least imo, is the fact that they have a NPC that informs them (on command) about every PC present in that area.

I used to be a former CON and as for the moot being impenertable...Well, if you want fort knox, then goto taslamar as an outlaw or something. It's probably themost well guarded city. The Moot, not the streets, but the moot itself is incredibly easy to get into if you're not outlawed. Literally, they open the doors up right for you, it just takes a bit of a quest to do. And even then it's not even a full quest oreven very long.

The NPCs the CoN has are mostly undead. 90% of them will die to a BoG almost instantly, provided the paladin has the necessary spellpower. The actual level of the NPCs are very low. Seriuosly, take a mentor character that isn't outlawed and go around and con the NPCs in the moot. They kill over easy. Hell my old NECRO tanked one of their guards with an axe merely by spamming vamp touch. They don't do much damage at all...

Of course this changes because DA / Peso and them usually keep their guards outfitted with heavily enchanted weaponry, this increases their performance, despite the level handicap. I suggest the other tribunals follow suit on that advice. Anyone can really do it. They just put the time in to do it.

The north has nothing to offer in terms of shops either, unless it's been changed recently. The pets there are subpar. Tere's no heavy armor shops like the ones Nerina and Taslamar has, atleast none that I've found.

Anyways, moving on to the Trio. They're just HP tanks. Literally they're the backbone of the CoN / Hand. Removing them would make the CoN a complete joke. A red headed step child to the entire mud which, by the way a good 80% of the mud atleast is generally against them. Call it political or whatever you like, but to be able to compete is what keeps the game fun. This game is about tactics, and there are several ways to beat the CoN. I mean hell, hire a grey priest that's not outlawed to go cast remove compulsion on them. That'll screw em over real fast. The Trio? Easy to deal with. They have no saves whatsoever. Their magic resist is utterly horrid so all you have to do i smake them flee the room. A nice BoG does that.

Seriously, just because you can't beat them solo and they've had some well coordinated tactics doesn't make them overpowered. They have weaknesses and their far from invincible, it's just that no one chooses to employ those weaknesses, rather they cry about them, wanting them nerfed so they can just have a red-headed step child to beat. That's all it looks like in my opinion. Also, I'm no longer part of the CoN, so my views aren't biased.

Edit: Also again, unless it's been changed the CoN has 0 priest NPCs. This makes a lot of buffs that other tribunals get and take for granted unavailable to them. Charming NPCs to get these buffs becomes necessary.