Shattered Kingdoms

Actually, technically a backstab is around the most humane way of killing anyone, surely less excruciating than having your chest caved in by a four pound flail.

it's the matter of deception and suspicious craftiness that people question..

Discussing for the sake of discussing. I can see why Dulrik made his decision. I do conceed to the very valid points TheCannibal made. But at the heart of the matter, what is it that defines a rogue as a profession? I think that's the key point. I don't necessarily belive if you select a class called 'rogue' but then don't train the things that make a rogue a rogue, that you're really playing a rogue at all. I don't believe the class defines the personality/how you play the character, just what it is...

which boils down to:

You have no reason to bring Merriam Webster into this.

Also, you completely contradicted yourself.


Okay, I used the example of not training say... steal and backstab if you wanted to be an honourable rogue. I should have just left that example out altogether. Do you honestly think that a rogue's profession choice completely changes his alignment? The only other professions which are alignment restricted are paladins/hellions and necromancers. Does the ABILITY to backstab someone (get a quick opening attack on a victim before he hits you) really affect your mindset as much as being completely dedicated to a light or dark god, or using the powers of necromancy? The answer is yes, maybe. BUT NOT FOR ALL PEOPLE.

A mercenary can be anything from principled to diabolic. As can swashbucklers, priests, shamans, warlocks, barbarians, scout, bard, and sorceror. The ONLY four other classes that are alignment restricted are paladins and hellions, (for their code) Necromancers (Cause necromancy's screwed up they brains) and now rogues? One of these things is a LOT different, is it not? I missed the part where rogues have to attend brainwashing school in order to be able to look into someone's inventory, lift a book off of someone without them noticing, or sneak up behind someone lightning fast and attack them in complete silence.

ANY CLASS with no alignment restrictions learns to kill people, yet even though murder is outlawed in all kingdoms save Teron, they can still be principled. ANY CLASS CAN BACKSTAB (Only rogues are good at it) and also ANY class can go invisible and/or attack a sleeping person. Why can they be principled or aberrant then? BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHEN TO USE THEIR SKILLS AND WHEN NOT TO. The same was true of rogues, until now. Apparently, any light-aura'd rogue now must be willing to bend the rules of even their own kingdom, and any evil rogue must either be a money grubbing selfish bastard or a completely insane psychopath. This change was supposed to help RP? Yeah right. All it did was ensure more cookie cutter characters.

This is an extremely RP limiting change that completely disallows rogues to have any honor.

That's extremely close-minded.
Principled people care about life and freedom above all else. Not honor. The word honor is NEVER mentioned in the principled helpfile. A principled person, upon finding someone who is unwilling to give up their evil ways, and threatens the lives of innocents, will do whatever is in their power, even planting a dagger in said evil foe's back, in order to stop them from killing innocents.

And aberrant people have their own code of honor, not necessarily ones hellions or paladins use. Would an aberrant person go around backstabbing anyone for personal gain? No. But if doing so would grant him power, or grant him his revenge on another person, there's no reason not to use the tools he's learned.

So, we've had 3 people who stated their arguments (four counting Dulrik) and yet eleven people have voted to keep the alignments as is. That's nice.

That's probably because they've already had their arguments listed and they realize, like myself, that further discussion is pointless.

I believe they should be returned. The alignments were here since the beginning and rogues of both principled and aberrant have played their part in SK history. To my knowledge of the game it was a rogue who was the first Eye of Sargas. A religion dominated by aberrants. When I made the other post it wasn't really the fact they were taken away that first struck me as odd, it was the fact that the alignments were taken away without any pre or post notification to the player base. I basically found out by a random alt idea. It literally felt like a stab in the back to me that the choices were taken away for the purpose of supposedly improving overall RP. I compare that to shooting your foot and then rubbing aloe vera on your neck... it just doesn't make sense.

The first Eye of Sargas was a drow sorceror named Seyanos.

Oh... well... now I know.

I voted no, for reasons already stated. It doesn't make sense for a principled (lawful good) or aberrant (lawful evil) character to even learn how to stab someone in the back or steal.

That said, it's not something I particularly care about either way.