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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 8220
Location: Redwood City, California
Redman wrote:
Hey D what is the chances you will modify Persuade to make it useful?


Much as it pains me to agree with OA, the skill is already useful with it's narrow focus. There are several cute tricks you can pull with it in addition to free buffs. Anything wider becomes 10x more abusable. We tried it that way when testing bards before their introduction and Chemhound found all kinds of broken things to do with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:53 pm 
Dulrik wrote:
Redman wrote:
Hey D what is the chances you will modify Persuade to make it useful?


Much as it pains me to agree with OA, the skill is already useful with it's narrow focus. There are several cute tricks you can pull with it in addition to free buffs. Anything wider becomes 10x more abusable. We tried it that way when testing bards before their introduction and Chemhound found all kinds of broken things to do with it.



Success versus cost adjustment perhaps?

May have changed but last time I had a bard with a 24 cha I failed probably about 90% of the time and each attempt sucked down like 50% of my ME so I got two shots/beat up, then had to sleep.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Michigan
Two shots? Must have changed since then, it's way more efficient now.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:58 pm
Posts: 3632
Location: Spokane, WA
Dulrik wrote:
Redman wrote:
Hey D what is the chances you will modify Persuade to make it useful?


Much as it pains me to agree with OA, the skill is already useful with it's narrow focus. There are several cute tricks you can pull with it in addition to free buffs. Anything wider becomes 10x more abusable. We tried it that way when testing bards before their introduction and Chemhound found all kinds of broken things to do with it.


The problem is that this is supposed to be a mentor level skill for something that is so narrow in focus, while it is good in that narrow focus, it doesn't merit the mentor status. You might as well give it to Journeyman. It is much weaker than charm person, but at the same time bards are not true casters. So, it balances out.

Since, it should not be a mentor level skill, can bards actually get a mentor level skill that is worth that status?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
Posts: 3502
Location: Canada
SK Character: Karsh
Dulrik wrote:
Redman wrote:
Hey D what is the chances you will modify Persuade to make it useful?


Much as it pains me to agree with OA, the skill is already useful with it's narrow focus. There are several cute tricks you can pull with it in addition to free buffs. Anything wider becomes 10x more abusable. We tried it that way when testing bards before their introduction and Chemhound found all kinds of broken things to do with it.


I didn't say it was fine as it is, I said that within a very narrow focus the skill is useful. I also said it should have a much broader application, given both the point in the skill tree at which it becomes available, as well as the nature of the skill itself.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
Well then if I'm not actually agreeing with you, now I feel much better.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
Posts: 3502
Location: Canada
SK Character: Karsh
Dulrik wrote:
Well then if I'm not actually agreeing with you, now I feel much better.


Don't worry, you and I both know I'm right more often than you can bring yourself to admit. I don't need to read you admitting it, it's enough to see things changed for the better as I argued towards despite your "LALALA" treatment.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:48 pm 
Cost is a hell of a lot less than I remember.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:49 pm 
Fail rate/learn rate still blow.

Can you do something to this skill, it IS supposed to be mentor level and it is along the line of blitzkreig.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Mortal Philanthropist

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:58 pm
Posts: 3632
Location: Spokane, WA
High cost + High lag + Nerfed Usefulness (good reason) + High Failure rate + Extremely Low learning rate = One skill that is almost not worth having


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