Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:42 am
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I'd rather have final strike scrolls back than have charm scrolls as is! :drunk:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:43 am
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SK Character: Airkli
Seconded.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
Achernar wrote:
I have seen this complaint several times. I have no way of knowing the answer, but my opinion is whatever rating racial bonuses are at is not really significant enough bonus to bother mentioning. I agree. If it says someone is resistant to charm it shouldn't be the preferred method of taking out that race. Right now races resistant to charm seem to be getting nothing from the benefit which most certainly is factored into their build and how it is balanced with other races.

If you have ridiculous willpower resistance from equipment, then you will not see an additional help from your racial bonus. Racial resistance to charm makes it harder to charm you, but whether you get it from race or equipment or a combination, there is still always a failure chance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:25 pm
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Location: Beyond the Rim
Sorcs have more than one way of bringing someone to their doom quickly. The changes made to charm were intended to improve RP because charmies did not 'act the part' so to speak. This way the cats can play with their mice. You weren't stoned, and you weren't otherwise blasted. A certain tactic has been deemed a bug. As most classes have at least some 'insta' means to defeat at least some other class without too much challenge, and because sorcs already have at least another tool to do this, I don't really see the change itself as imbalancing to the PK realm.
There are really quite a lot of things that go bump in the game where the victim doesn't have much if any say in what's happening. It's not like charm is the only way to off people.

As far as a racial resistance to charm is concerned:
What is the max possible/conceivable for MR armor enchantments? X
What is the likelyhood statistically that a player with such full enchants will be hit by a charm by a GM sorc with max art? Y
Racial resistance to charm should provide at 1/3 of X (numerically) or be 130% as effective against saving against charm from the most extreme case. (My numbers could be a bit off here, but anything less may not be noticable, and anything greater would likely be imbalancing... I'm trying to find the medium.)
There should always be some set amount doomed to failure. Botches always have a chance of happening.
The key point being that it needs to be a perceived difference yet it should not make it impossible to hit. But it should be noticable. If it is not (as indicated), this is perhaps where the attention should be focused.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
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Location: Canada
SK Character: Karsh
Dulrik wrote:
Achernar wrote:
I have seen this complaint several times. I have no way of knowing the answer, but my opinion is whatever rating racial bonuses are at is not really significant enough bonus to bother mentioning. I agree. If it says someone is resistant to charm it shouldn't be the preferred method of taking out that race. Right now races resistant to charm seem to be getting nothing from the benefit which most certainly is factored into their build and how it is balanced with other races.

If you have ridiculous willpower resistance from equipment, then you will not see an additional help from your racial bonus. Racial resistance to charm makes it harder to charm you, but whether you get it from race or equipment or a combination, there is still always a failure chance.


Response to bold:

You should.

Response to italics:

No, it doesn't.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:27 am
Posts: 166
I have today decided that the trouble with charm is not scrolls, or their strength, or anything. Problem is some twits have gotten it into their heads to use it 24:7, on every other person they meet. "Oh, but we just want to use it to RP". No, just RP without using the damned spell - if your RP is interesting enough the person will respond without killing you and without leaving.

You can argue till the cows come home about whether it's fair or balanced or whatever.

What it is is boring. Every other pkill on the mud right now involves someone getting charmed.

And then usually it's either a slow death, or 20+ minutes of having to [REDACTED] foot around and "RP" with the person who charmed you. Saying yes to their every question. You can RP with your enemies without charming them. And it's real RP as they'll say what their character should say, not what you want them to say.

Who the hell decided that's what charm "RP" was needs a kick up the behind. What was wrong with a character "panicing" when strange things happened and quaffing a recall vial, or a cancellation vial. These reactions can be justified, and meant that back in the day, this spell was used how every casual player thinks it should be used - to control NPCs and occasionally to do something interesting in PvP. Rather than the tedious crap that's going on now.

Just get rid of all the stupid rules around charm, and get it back to the point where this spell was just another jman spell.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:25 pm
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Location: Beyond the Rim
The extreme increase in the use of charm may be a direct result of the change itself and people wanting to prove how it the tactics can be pushed to their limits. --> Some people have indicated this is precisely what they will do.

I believe we saw the same outcry when magma spray broke through magical protection, and I'm sure historically whenever code fiddled with some tactic of importance the population has had similar responses.

The prime way to avoid being charmed is the same tactic to use to avoid pk in the first place. No, it's not a perfect world by any means, but if the charmie bullies push their limits, they will also have pretty targets on their heads as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Test have been done. 22 will and naive wis makes it so charm from a 16 art sorc hits 1/10 times. If you think that getting 22 will is too high then your a fool. Try playing a sorc and not dying when you have 300 hp and get instantly killed by backstab, the kill command, ambush, charge, cleave, skirmish, and magma.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:58 pm
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Location: Spokane, WA
Rial wrote:
Test have been done. 22 will and naive wis makes it so charm from a 16 art sorc hits 1/10 times. If you think that getting 22 will is too high then your a fool. Try playing a sorc and not dying when you have 300 hp and get instantly killed by backstab, the kill command, ambush, charge, cleave, skirmish, and magma.


How many times did you run the test? If it wasn't at least a hundred times, then it was a poor test.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:30 am
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Location: The Shadows of Pyrathia
Iv'e had someone with 40 willpower get hit the second time a charm was tried. And you really should be doing a big number of trials.


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