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 Post subject: Shamans
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:33 pm 
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My thoughts on how to make the shaman class fit into its vision (as I see it) and a bit more fun to play. Parenthesis indicate new abilities; (X) refers to removed abilities.

Skills:
Amateur - axe, dagger, (X) flail, mace, sling, staff, (X) staves, (spear)
Novice - meditation
Initiate - self defense
Apprentice- dodge, endurance
Journeyman- second attack, trance
Veteran - brawling, shield block
Expert - brew, (third attack)

For skills, remove staves and flail. Staves are a magical item, and using a magical item would go against the whole anti-magic theme of the tribe and spirit worship. Flails are a complicated weapon and wouldn't seem to be very present in a tribal setting. Add spears. Spears are a basic weapon and would be readily available to learn from anyone in a tribe. It would also give them more available reaching weapons (because pole-axes and pole-maces are somewhat rare) that also weigh less, strength not being a primary concern for a shaman. I will also throw third attack out there at expert. You can shoot this down all you like. My reasoning is shamans are supposed to be able to fight well from their relationship with barbarians (see help-file), but they don't have any skills that actually separate them from a priest or even a warlock. Also, their only damage spell is flamestrike, which isn't phenomenal (I know spirit aura does, but that only helps if you're being hit).

Spells:
Amateur - armor, bless, cure light, refresh
Novice - create water, cure blindness, cure deafness, spirit doll, slow, water breathing
Initiate - blindness, cure serious, deafness, identify, sleep, spirit sight
Apprentice- create food, cure poison, curse, infravision, regeneration, remove curse
Journeyman- cure critical, dispel magic, flamestrike, frenzy, raise dead, spirit aura, (cancellation), (fly)
Veteran - call lightning, control weather, cure disease, weaken
Expert - exorcism, heal, sanctuary, seance
Mentor - spirit horde, word of recall, (restore life)
Master - voodoo

For spells, an additional spell to bring back from life besides raise dead. Jorinthia already brought it up in a post (http://www.shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19480). She explains her argument very well, so I will only briefly summarize. As a “cleric”, they should be better at healing than a warlock, but are currently pretty much equivalent. She recommends a spell that requires a body and the presence of the spirit (via séance or manifest). I agree with this. I think a fitting mentor-level spell would be appropriate (named something like “restore life”). Also, if barbarians (or shamans, for that manner) are supposed to come back to life only through shamans, they're really at a loss in comparison to the other classes (especially considering the lack of shamans on the game right now; I'm currently sitting dead waiting for one). Also, add cancellation at journeyman and fly at journeyman or veteran. Cancellation would be important because, if they hate magic, they should certainly be able to dispel its effects on their allies, not just their enemies. Fly is necessary because if you remove staves, barbarians (and shamans) have no way to fly or get to some places without magic (no rifts or gates, etc.).

So those are my thoughts. I think they would make the class fit better into the vision of the class, and also may it more worth playing (to people that don't already think so).

Discuss.

*Edited once for the link and once for clarity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Taking staves away from shamans would be a massive nerf. From your post, it's not clear that you realize this. I probably wouldn't consider playing a shaman after this change.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:41 pm 
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I am sure I do not realize what all that entails. I don't know too much about the magic classes. It just doesn't seem to fit the non-magic theme of shamans. Is there any way that this could be addressed?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:46 pm 
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A chance when making spirit dolls to get fetishes that work similar to staves? All fetishes must be worn in the hand, do not count as weapons and are easily destroyed by fire and acid. They ignore MR towards the shaman and automatically cast as soon as they are worn, released when removed.

Just my two cents.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:46 pm 
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response to razor:
Say your spirits help you to unlock the power of staves? idk.

I'm more just thinking of how this affects game balance. Staves allow access to several buffs for shamans, most notably MI. Not to mention offensive staves, which can be used to pretty good effect.


Last edited by Baldric on Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Could create an entire new item and skill, similar to the shaman's spirit dolls. Call them medicine wheels or something. Make them work just like staves, but only usable by shamans.

But then every class that has staves will want something special to replace staves.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:49 pm 
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That could be cool. It could also bring about hunting for specific animals. For example, a flying creature could grant flying with their spirit doll (or medicine wheel), an acid scorpion could make a one-charge "stave" of acid blast (the level depending on the level of the creature killed).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:57 pm 
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razorblade009 wrote:
That could be cool. It could also bring about hunting for specific animals. For example, a flying creature could grant flying with their spirit doll (or medicine wheel), an acid scorpion could make a one-charge "stave" of acid blast (the level depending on the level of the creature killed).


I'm going to say no.

Since, in my judgment, there is a 0% chance that such a change would ever be implemented, I'm not going to bother explaining why I don't think it's a good idea.

Okay, fine, I'll explain.

1) We're suddenly talking about a lot of coding.
2) We're still talking about something that will have unknown effects on game balance
3) It is not clear there is any inconsistency between shamans harnessing the power of staves and also relying on the spirits to do so.
4) If such an inconsistency existed, I doubt many people care, and I doubt their enjoyment of the game is lessened by it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Fair enough. Something new would be ideal, but just not possible now or in the near future. Any thoughts on the other changes?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:10 pm 
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I like the idea of giving shamans a better way to bring people back to life. Some reasons include:

1) pbase is small, and there's not always a priest around
2) barbarians and shamans should be given a viable option of coming back via the spirits
3) Priests are already a very good class. They don't need to have a monopoly on this sort of thing
4) It does not affect game balance, but will probably make the game more enjoyable for everyone.


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