Shattered Kingdoms

I was kind of thinking about this myself. Curious what else the haters have to say about it.

For necros, you would still have to "re-prep" every 45 minutes anyway, so unless you're going to spend over half of your time preparing (and re-preparing), it isn't going to change much on the prep time.

Prior to this change, it was a pretty standard expectation on the part of a necro that in order to get "battle-ready," you're going to have to spend some time. And that was okay. I honestly don't see how this helps, since the probability that something interesting happens in the first 45 minutes of you logging in is pretty low anyway.


On the other hand, the whole "charms remove all of their eq and drop it" bit is actually a slap in the face to anyone who used cancelling charms as a viable tactic. I'd prefer charms and controls not to stay with you, and let them keep their things in hand. Anybody stupid enough to log off with a charm deserves to lose whatever they had piled onto them.

If you actually manage to "fix" this behavior, all you're doing is further encouraging the hoarding instinct of sorcerers, since their own strength is no longer a limitation. I'm begging you to reconsider.

I would LOVE any sort of change that lets us stop spells once we start concentrating on them. Do you remember the thread about that? Evena and I both liked it! Not sure how it would affect necromancers, would love to hear from people more well-versed in PK.

idk, Edoras. I think Algon, Tragonis, Snuffles, Aust, Ilky and I are right, and that you, Orac, Adroan, and jennbo are wrong. The necro is still extremely strong. You're just harping on the fact that one of the tactics available to the necro can be countered by one or two of the classes in the game, when played properly. That doesn't mean the class is underpowered. It means that a necro can't just animate undead and then roll his face across the keyboard when playing against a competent group containing lightie priests and/or paladins. He'll have to rely on some of the other tactics available to him, or at least a combination of animates and other tactics. The melee output from 8 GM barbs and 2 controls is still completely unmatched by anything else in the game. Nothing comes close to that kind of raw damage output. Necros still have wands/staves/scrolls and a host of extremely potent offensive spells. The necro is still the top of the food chain.

I'm not sure either of us is going to contribute anything more to the argument. If I were playing, and interested in playing something that required a bit of grind, I'd roll a necro and we could find out which of us is right. That's not going to happen, though, so I'm going to let the issue drop.

I think that the walk-in holy word tactic adds something valuable to the pvp in SK, and I don't think I'd want it removed. However, I'm open to arguments for that change. I simply don't think that necros need that buff. Final strike should be removed from the game, though, and once again, charm person needs to have its saving throw looked at. Jennbo, they're not really talking about something that would allow you to purposefully stop casting a spell after you started concentrating (though I agree that would be good).

Baldric, I love ya, but honestly -- since you don't play any more, why should your opinion matter at all?

As for the concentrating / moving thing, that would both stop holy-word bombs and prevent casters from getting "spell-locked" during quick movement. I'd like such a change.

No, that's not what I'm talking about here. Like I think I said on that thread, making the change that would allow you to enter a command to stop while you are in the process of concentrating is hard, because the entire feature revolves around not letting you enter commands. But it would be very easy to make your character stop concentrating in response to an outside stimulus, such as if your group forced you to move. Witness how combat damage makes you lose concentration all the time.

I may be wrong but wouldn't that inadvertently buff *Darkie Cabal Room Spell* and make it incredibly tough to handle save for warlocks? It would virtually guarantee them first attack.

Edit: I've thought of a few more ways, but still.

The people who think that the reduction of animated undead is nerfing necromancers have such one-dimensional thinking, and probably have never played the class. The last time I played a necromancer, I relied solely on animated undead, and never made more than six wraiths. I fought groups of people, and won. Actually, I outright murdered a lot of people, and went with something like an 80:1 killstreak, before I just got bored with the overpoweredness of the class. That was without tapping the otential to create 20 some wraiths, or more and just going apeshit with all the damage output. Furthermore they have spells like feeblemind, and fear which are some of the best spells in the game. They possess every debuff spell in the game, and get access to all the magical devices. This class is *far* from underpowered. They're still more powerful than the sorcerer class even with this wimp.

1) My opinion should matter because I'm smart and have a decent understanding of game mechanics.
2) I do plan on returning to the game. Relatively soon, actually.
3) I'm not convinced that holy word bombs are a bad thing, so I'm not convinced that stopping them is a good thing. This is a change that would definitely affect game balance, but I'm not sure that it would do so in a positive way. I'm open to arguments, though. Also, well-executed walk-in holy words have provided some of the coolest pvps I've seen.
4) Good point about casters getting spell-locked. I hadn't thought about that.

I'm glad Ardith joined the thread. Before he posted, I was actually going to say that even before this change, if I had rolled a necro, I would have only used 6-10 wraiths. I seriously doubt I would have gone over 10, unless it was for CRS. Necros are still extremely strong. I'm not sure if necro is in fact stronger than sorc, but that might be the case.

I thought about that when someone mentioned it, and I think it would be neat, but my opinion is probably jaded (Though I'd like to think it wasn't) since I'm playing a darkie and the most common tactic it will hurt is walk-in holy word, followed by follow remove compulsion, and both of them are effective against my character.

For the PvP scene, that will keep people from executing walk-in holy words, walk-in final strike, and follow charm/follow remove compulsion. It will also affect things other than PvP, but mostly just by being annoying as crap if you have a leader that won't hold still for you to cast.

Preventing walk-in final strike would be AWESOME.

Preventing walk-in holy word would hurt lighties, especially tribs, substantially more than darkies. While it's not a commonly used tactic, it is good to have and is many times one of the few ways to initiate combat as a tribunal member when *Cabal spell here* is in play.

Preventing follow/remove compulsion would be a slight buff to sorcerers in regards to fighting cloth priests.


I'd rather leave the follow casting aspect of the game the way it is, and just remove final strike, because that's the only spell for which following someone shouldn't be allowed.