Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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What do you think?
Yes. 82%  82%  [ 9 ]
No. 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 11
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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:47 am 
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Baldric wrote:
I like the part where you say massive weapons should be tweaked, but disagree with me.

I never PvPed without haste, and I avoided stacking fatigues by not PvPing constantly. I don't think the argument about haste makes a lot of sense. If you cut the opponent's attacks by one as well, the three attacks from the halberd will still be great, anyways.

Why would anyone care that the weapon isn't useful for pve? pve does not require awesome weaponry, anyways, or even a specced weapon.


They are useful for PvE, but only if the group has a person who is going to play tank while your character plays damage output. Still, a pike or battle spear is going to outperform just on sheer volume of attacks.

The dynamic just changes in PvP because massive weapons guarantee the hit, and since most of these weapons are the highest damaging weapons in the game the targets tend to fall very fast.

Reach is nice and all, but the last two PKs I managed with my character involved me killing a front row NPC then utilizing bash to lock the PC in place. It's not the end all of tactics. I would have done just as well with my other mercenary that had the claymore spec.

That last comment is aimed at Minette, by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 am 
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Location: I'm in a glass case of emotion!
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ninja_ardith wrote:
They are useful for PvE, but only if the group has a person who is going to play tank while your character plays damage output. Still, a pike or battle spear is going to outperform just on sheer volume of attacks.

The dynamic just changes in PvP because massive weapons guarantee the hit, and since most of these weapons are the highest damaging weapons in the game the targets tend to fall very fast.

Come on, man. You have to realize this is stuff I already know.

ninja_ardith wrote:
Reach is nice and all, but the last two PKs I managed with my character involved me killing a front row NPC then utilizing bash to lock the PC in place. It's not the end all of tactics. I would have done just as well with my other mercenary that had the claymore spec.

This is true, but you're forgetting that if you had just typed trip jaund, you would have won immediately. Also, your opponent was a real newb.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
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In all honesty the trip skill should never come into play if you're going to theorycraft about what's best end-game.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:54 am 
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I might have risked the code being buggy again!


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:16 am 
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Edoras wrote:
In all honesty the trip skill should never come into play if you're going to theorycraft about what's best end-game.


Good point.

However, the fact is that against a majority of opponents, trip will be useful. It warrants mention for overall usefulness of the weapon, even if in the endgame against a prepped opponent it is negated. Same with spirit horde, though I suppose SA is harder to come by than flight.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:55 am 
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Edoras wrote:
In all honesty the trip skill should never come into play if you're going to theorycraft about what's best end-game.


But trip is part of the mercenary class!

You do bring up a point though, only mercs can use reach trip.

Also, is the help file for trip stupid or is it worded in such a way that it leads me to believe that someone can trip with a crossbow in third row?


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
ninja_ardith wrote:
Tweaks that I'd suggest.

- Reduce the penalty to parry by 50%
- Reduce the penalty to shield block by 25%
- Increase movement cost for iterative attacks.

I won't speak to the numbers, but the basic suggestions seem sound. I would break the movement cost up into two new categories. Massive weapons and reach weapons should each have an increased cost which would help differentiate weapons that are of either type from ones that are both.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:04 am 
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SK Character: Airkli
Were Ardith's suggestions implemented? Wondering where this stands now.


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 Post subject: Re: Can we show bypasses massive weapons do?
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22357


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