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Is aura of negation dumb?
Aura of negation is dumb. 48%  48%  [ 20 ]
Aura of negation is not dumb. 52%  52%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 42
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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 4452
Why is there anything wrong with casting invis and laughing?


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am
Posts: 1500
Edoras wrote:
I wouldn't agree on that 90% deal. Being able to make the right moves in SK is just as important as having the right buffs and EQ. You can have all the EQ in the world but if you spend your time panicking or brandishing a chill touch staff during combat you're still pretty useless.

Aura of Negation is still an uneccessary and hurtful change on an OOC level. Adding Aura of Negation just says "Hey, all you guys who trained MR and suck because you can't use buffs before a fight? We're going to give you a feature that only screws over your enemies who have actually put in the proper time and effort to have those buffs. Congratulations for rolling a character who is good for nothing but making other players' time less useful." MR barbarians were already very good against hellions, priests, paladins and maybe sorcs, adding AoN just made them even better against those classes even with zero prep, and still at best puts them on even footing with normal melee classes without changing any of the frustrating PvE problems with the build.

On an IC level, the entire reasoning for MR in the very first place was that in the helpfiles it's stated that most barbarians abhor magic. Well, Dulrik went out of his way to actually say that AoN would actually be made more useful if you have MR enchantments on your gear. So now, to be a fully effective MR barb, you have to... use magic. That's unbelievably dumb. There isn't going to be a single MR barb who says "Hey, don't cast heal on me, because I hate magic." They're going to say "Hey, please cast enchant my armor for MR and MP, and please cast heal on me because it still heals me, and please give me mistletoe herbs so I can heal myself with them, you know, through magic. Man I hate magic so much!"

And honestly, it's actually more valid to argue MR from purely a griffarb perspective, because not a single person playing SK wants to spend their time leveling and gearing up a crappy barbarian who has to actually put more time into prep to get buffs, and who still can probably be avoided just by casting invis and laughing. MR is still only an option for playing a character you know is going to die a lot and be crappy overall, and griffons fit the bill perfectly. Playing a non-MR griffon would just be an exercise in frustration, because if you want to be good you're going to have to use magic anyway, which nullifies even the supposedly cool RP style of "I hates magic lolol"


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ninja_ardith wrote:
Why is there anything wrong with casting invis and laughing?


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 8220
Location: Redwood City, California
Edoras wrote:
On an IC level, the entire reasoning for MR in the very first place was that in the helpfiles it's stated that most barbarians abhor magic. Well, Dulrik went out of his way to actually say that AoN would actually be made more useful if you have MR enchantments on your gear. So now, to be a fully effective MR barb, you have to... use magic. That's unbelievably dumb. There isn't going to be a single MR barb who says "Hey, don't cast heal on me, because I hate magic." They're going to say "Hey, please cast enchant my armor for MR and MP, and please cast heal on me because it still heals me, and please give me mistletoe herbs so I can heal myself with them, you know, through magic. Man I hate magic so much!"

It's perfectly valid for a barbarian to consider MR "enchantments" as a cleansing of the item. A ritual of purification that makes the item less tainted by the omnipresent magic that is always lurking in the background. As far as for the gameplay aspects, I didn't want to make an ability that was completely useless for people who decided not to train MR. If you just rely on gear, it isn't going to be very good, but you could conceivably gear for it and have it do something. And Edoras, you aren't allowed to complain about this, because your main beef has always been that the ability doesn't require gear. Try to be consistent.


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:47 pm
Posts: 3776
Location: Virginia
SK Character: Amorette
Edoras, is this going to be forever?


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 1279
Location: Miami, FL
FinneyOwnzU wrote:
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Pretty much.


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 3527
Location: I'm in a glass case of emotion!
SK Character: Retired Troll
I think it's funny that Edoras has always been the most vocal player in favor of decreasing the amount of prep time needed to be viable in pvp. Now that there is a build available that makes viable (but sub-par by his own description) characters with minimal prep time, he is the player who is constantly calling it a dumb change.


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
I am in favor of changes that overall make players be able to enjoy the game rather than spending the majority of their time enchanting. MR does this for griffarbs and griffarbs only. I don't see how my stance is invalidated because of this. Training MR is still only an option if you want to be an idiot griffarb who spam dies in PvP just for the odd chance to be able to kill and junk/fully loot your enemy. Trying to even consider training MR as a "real" barbarian makes my head spin as to how stupidly annoying that would be.


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
And if you're looking for my #1 underlying "problem," it's this.

Buffs are important, as a melee character. They are undeniably key if you are in the front row taking damage. Using sanc, protection/SA, haste, armor, giant strength, etc. takes your survivability and pump it through the roof, just as much as enchanted armor. If you lose those buffs in the middle of a fight, you'll drop like a rock.

Now, in group PvP, any front-liner fighting against a team with a single MR griffarb is completely, completely screwed, because all the MR griffarb has to do is spam AoN with auto assist on, and more than likely in the very first round of combat the front-liners are going to lose all their buffs and get 2-3 rounded. There's nothing that can be done to resist AoN, and there's nothing you can do to stop him from spamming it if he's in the front row. And, the griffon barb needs absolutely no gear at all except a reaching weapon to turn the entire tide of the battle.

So yeah, I like changes that allow people to enjoy the game. This change does the exact opposite. It's no fun to lose all your gear and have all your prep invalidated by a guy who didn't have to put in any effort at all to engage in PvP.


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:41 am
Posts: 2596
Location: Witness Protection
SK Character: Cyndane - Talys
MR griffarb Hammer should theoretically be a heck of a lot better.

I am assuming that the current players just suck, or I am missing something in the theory of...

Complete spell immunity + cast <insert spell> bash? Since you can cast self only spells with MR. How do you die.


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 Post subject: Re: Aura of negation
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:01 pm
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Location: I'm in a glass case of emotion!
SK Character: Retired Troll
I agree with you syn but human mr hambarb is probably the best.


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