Circle Bug

FinneyOwnzU · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am **Posts:** 1500

Annoying circle bug. Log snippet below:

Code:

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> 
ALLY starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> Variable: target              ENEMY

ALLY starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> circle ENEMY
Their party isn't fighting right now.  <-- This one I understand, since nobody has attacked him yet.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> 
ALLY attempts to taunt an ENEMY male human, but just sounds lame.  <-- A failed taunt doesn't constitute fighting?
>>>>>>> TAUNT <<<<<<<

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> 
ALLY dodges a midnight guard's attack.
ALLY dodges a midnight guard's attack.
A midnight guard misses ALLY.
A legionnaire winces in pain as he stubs his toe trying to kick ALLY's armored form.
A legionnaire's punch at ALLY's chest is deflected by a set of vestments covered in coral and seaweed.
A legionnaire misses ALLY.
ALLY gives a midnight guard a frisson as her piercing wail twists his chest.
ALLY's piercing wail echoes off a midnight guard's chest.
ALLY pierces at a midnight guard's head, causing a pulsating wound.
ALLY's flaring light is harmlessly reflected from a midnight guard's chest.
ALLY stabs a midnight guard's chest, causing a gaping wound!
ALLY cleaves a midnight guard's chest, causing a gaping wound!
ALLY stabs a midnight guard's chest, ripping open his stomach!
ALLY strikes suddenly, stabbing at a midnight guard's chest!  Some GUTS fall!
ALLY stabs a midnight guard's stomach, causing a small wound.
ALLY stabs at a midnight guard's right arm, tearing open a big bleeding wound!

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> circle ENEMY
Their party isn't fighting right now.
ALLY utters the words, 'barh ay ohifl'.
A bolt of light bursts forth from ALLY's hand!
An ENEMY male human is surrounded by a nimbus of holy light!
An ENEMY male human cringes in terror from ALLY's bolt of glory!  <-- Now he's been hit by BoG, but still can't circle.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> 
ALLY utters the words, 'barh ay ohifl'.
A bolt of light bursts forth from ALLY's hand!
An ENEMY male human weeps in pain and despair as ALLY's bolt of glory hits him.  <-- Now he's been hit by two BoGs, but still can't circle.
ALLY starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> 
ALLY utters the words, 'barh ay ohifl'.
A bolt of light bursts forth from ALLY's hand!
An ENEMY male human cringes in terror from ALLY's bolt of glory!   <-- Now he's been hit by three BoGs, but still can't circle.
A midnight guard is blinded by the dirt in his eyes!
>>>>>>> BLIND <<<<<<<

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> Variable: target              ENEMY
ALLY starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> 
ALLY starts to concentrate.
ALLY starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME:100%] [PE: 99%]
> circle ENEMY
Their party isn't fighting right now.  <-- Sigh. What exactly is considered fighting as far as circle is concerned?  Is getting hit by failed taunts and three BoGs not enough?

ObjectivistActivist · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:58 pm

Failed taunt doesn't constitute an attack, as it doesn't trigger combat.

As for what constitutes being in combat, I suspect a full combat round has to pass, which hasn't happened until after the end of your log snippet. I don't think it's a bug, just a matter of the game's "order of operations" calculations.

FinneyOwnzU · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am **Posts:** 1500

ObjectivistActivist wrote:

Failed taunt doesn't constitute an attack, as it doesn't trigger combat.

As for what constitutes being in combat, I suspect a full combat round has to pass, which hasn't happened until after the end of your log snippet. I don't think it's a bug, just a matter of the game's "order of operations" calculations.

I can see the failed taunt not counting as fighting, but getting hit by three BoGs should flag someone as "fighting". I know a long time ago, rogues were able to use circle no matter what - to start fights, etc. Then it got changed. However, for group PK that has left them in a very awkward situation. You will rarely be able to use backstab or hamstring (to start the fight), since it requires the target to not have a pulse. Otherwise, you get the hyper-alert message and the attack can't be executed.

And now circle has a requirement of the target fighting, which the game is obviously not interpreting accurately or quickly. This leaves a rogue sitting there twiddling their thumbs, waiting for the game to recognize the target is fighting.

Please consider either reverting circle so that the target doesn't have to be fighting or tweak it so that the game realizes a target is fighting after they have been hit by a spell, etc.

ObjectivistActivist · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:10 pm

I'm pretty sure hamstring can be used with a racing pulse, can't it? Starting with a dirt would probably allow you to not twiddle your thumbs, the lag would give that one combat round a chance to pass and then you could circle to your heart's content (or your target's death, which ever happens first). Plus, if you land the dirt, you just nerfed their damage output/casting ability. Just a suggestion.

I do agree that getting hit with offensive spells should probably start combat immediately. I do want to point out, though, that in your log piece the second circle attempt actually happened before the first offensive spell went off. The third one *should* have gone through, though.

FinneyOwnzU · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am **Posts:** 1500

ObjectivistActivist wrote:

I'm pretty sure hamstring can be used with a racing pulse, can't it? Starting with a dirt would probably allow you to not twiddle your thumbs, the lag would give that one combat round a chance to pass and then you could circle to your heart's content (or your target's death, which ever happens first). Plus, if you land the dirt, you just nerfed their damage output/casting ability. Just a suggestion.

I do agree that getting hit with offensive spells should probably start combat immediately. I do want to point out, though, that in your log piece the second circle attempt actually happened before the first offensive spell went off. The third one *should* have gone through, though.

Hamstring can be used in combat, but it can't be used to start combat against someone with a racing pulse. If I had tried to hamstring in that scenario, I would have gotten the hyper-alert message. In that situation, it works just like backstab: if the target is not in combat and doesn't have a pulse, you can lead with hamstring. I don't know why you would ever want to do that, though, since you could just backstab instead. Once you're in combat, you can use hamstring until both of the target's legs are mangled.

And, no, I couldn't dirt kick - I was employing a certain cabal skill that prevented it.

I know how to play the class. What I need to know from Dulrik is whether this is intended behavior for circle or a bug. If it is not a bug, rogue is by far the worst group PK class you could possibly pick IMHO.

It boils down to this: if the game won't let you lead with a hamstring or backstab, you should be able to circle. I never understood why that was changed, but it has some very irritating consequences. Especially now that most PK is group based.

EDIT: Or better yet, change the requirement for circle from the target fighting to the target having a racing pulse. If you can catch the target without a pulse, you open with backstab or hamstring. If they have a pulse, you can circle. Seems a lot better than the convoluted mess that the game is checking right now.

Muktar · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:41 pm

Yeah, I find this really annoying. Sometimes my pet would stun then and then I couldn't hamstring or circlstab them, backstab, so I would either have to switch to ranged or move to the front

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

I think this only happens rarely, and I'm not sure what causes it to happen.

I'm going to go out on a limb after seeing him get lit up by 3 bolt of glory spells and take a guess that he has to make an active melee attack, or be attacked and since the group in question didn't actually start the fight attacking him the game didn't consider him to be "fighting", sort of like how it is possible for a second row character to get attacked, and still be able to walk away if they aren't able to actually reach the person with their weapon. This has always bugged me. I think the bug is there, it's just not circle stab that has the bug, it is what the game considers "fighting" that is bugged.

Obviously any time their pulse is racing you should be able to circle stab them, in my opinion.

Muktar · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:23 pm

ardith is correct. If someone hasn't started to attack, or is stunned even though they might be getting killed or near death, they aren't considered fighting

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Muktar wrote:

ardith is correct. If someone hasn't started to attack, or is stunned even though they might be getting killed or near death, they aren't considered fighting

I don't think it is correct. It is probably used to determine when the flee command is actually applicable (although the flee command can actually be used at any time). Easy fix would probably just be to make it so that circle stab can be used at any time. Probably hamstring too.

Also, why don't rogues get tumble? Seems like they should. Same for scouts. Can't see any situation where I would actually want to use their rescue skill.

Terrus · **Posted:** Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:54 am

Looks like the guy was maybe 2nd row or deeper with no reaching weapon at least. From what I've noticed in SK you're not considered in combat until actively swinging a weapon at someone. Maybe not a bug, but definitely should be changed to turn on with racing pulses.

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Circle Bug

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