Shattered Kingdoms

Anything limited has the potential to just wind up hoarded by sorcerors and necromancers and etc, basically nullifying the whole point.

If they are hoarded by sorcs and necros, then those sorcs and necros are not out doing mass killings which is why this thread started.

Man, oblivion sure is a lot nicer and overpowered than what I remember it.

I don't think you understand what "oblivion" means. Something that has been "nerfed into oblivion" would be unplayably bad, not the most powerful class on SK. Like I said, they have gone from ludicrous down to ridiculous, but they still need work.

Just to interject, the many failures of Alaric, where he either got chased away, or spammed a cheater item to go to safety were never posted.

The problem with the necromancer lies in the sheer volume of attacks, and the dominance that melee has shown. They're simply capable of doing the greatest dps of any class in SK, which can only be competed with by teamwork. They also do both spellcasting, and melee exceptionally well.

I don't really like this solution, especially since it would require new code work and a whole new system of ethereal mechanics. Putting a limited number of potions or pills in the Dreamscape and/or other difficult or out-of-the-way areas would suffice. I do want to see the day where an ethereal mercenary tries to jump a sorcerer, but then another ethereal mercenary comes in and we have an ethereal mercenary vs. mercenary fight. I just don't want to see that all the time.

The potions could do other things, too. A potion of etherealform + spell ward woud be a cool anti-sorcerer device. A potion of etherealform + teleport could have interesting uses. Maybe a potion from the Dreamscape wouldn't be without potential consequences: etherealform + sleep (low powered, of course). Our immstaff can probably come up with a few cool potions and stick them in fun places.

Look, I would appreciate it if you stop threatening me.

The whole point of this thread wasn't that "OMG necro's are mean blah blah rage rage" It's the fact that if your going to be the top melee DPS class in the game and you go ethereal against a group of PCs, you shouldn't have to just worry about situational instances where there's a rogue or bard present with a scroll, or a sorc present so that then the two can toss spells at each other. I don't mind the fact that necro's get all those undead and controls, they need them since they are hated by more then half the realms, but it's wrong when you go ethereal and maybe 1-2% of the people playing then have a chance to kill you. Not to mention a well prep'd necro goes with MM to help lessen some of those BoGs that get thrown at them.

I never really had a problem dealing with necromancers. I just found it annoying when the change was made so that they could recall and keep their entire army. Forcing them ethereal and then having to run away was also annoying. I agree that necromancer is the most powerful class in the game, though. This is by design. Extra prep time, natural enemies, and devastating weaknesses (for both the necro and his army) are the reason.

I am confident that I could roll as a variety of classes and PK syn's necro into deletion, without outnumbering her in fights. I can't even think of a particularly successful necromancer in pvp. Surrit probably isn't more successful than Antiira or even Pilnor were. Peso's necro wasn't very good. Tragonis's necros have been iffy. Thran's was okay but nothing fierce. I wouldn't want to play a necro because while I can think of ways to steamroll newbs, they just have lots of weaknesses against a smart opponent.

Styles, if you have the time to write pages about how OP necros are, I'd think you have the time to name one or two dominant necros since the animate dead change.

We are agreed that they are the most powerful class in the game. My position is that there should not be a most powerful class in the game. There should be lots of interesting variety, but also balance overall. Their weaknesses are a joke compared to their egregious melee output and myriad spell casting options. Also, the prep time is lower than for a melee character, who continually has to reacquire his loot and get it re-enchanted because he got steamrolled by a necro. As stated earlier, necros can also run over PvE, so they can reequip more easily than any other class. It's not just that necros are out of line with other classes, it's that they're way out of line. You could make the change I have proposed in this thread and they would still be potent. So why not do it? There is no good argument why animate dead should not be made more reasonable as per my suggestion. Not one.

Whether or not one in recent history is dominant is irrelevant. Characters come and go so fast these days that almost nobody sticks around to establish longterm dominance. By the time you could plevel a character to solo Syn's necro, she will have already deleted anyway. Part of that is because the fun of SK is diminished when there are elements of the game so wildly out of balance. It's not really much fun to be on either side of that imbalance, unless you are a twink and enjoy steamrolling people with a broken character, and twinks aren't generally the highest caliber players.

This thread is a lot of smoke and mirrors with all of these irrelevant tangents and hypotheticals. The bottom line is that necros are unbalanced with the rest of the classes by a wide margin, and the idea I have proposed would begin to address that. I don't think there is anything else to say, unless you can somehow make the case that 50 attacks/round from 10 GM barbarian NPCs is balanced (spoiler alert: it's not).