Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Posts: 1444
Location: New York
patrisaurus wrote:
ladyjennbo wrote:
Baldric wrote:
btw my guesses are
styles = mr.treefinger
and
stylesP = patrisaurus


I thought it was a pretty obvious joke that patrisaurus was StylesP, though now because of 8x4=24 he might not admit to it. :P

That's a good guess for Styles, though. I totally see it.


I don't use sockpuppets. StylesP is someone else.


Well, at least you don't use them for posting in forums. Amirite?


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
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Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
busted


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:13 pm 
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StylesP wrote:
Heck, didn't Ardith just post a "hey, look at me solo CRS" log on his merc?

Yes, how long did it take that "solo" mercenary to put down an outer guardian? Probably about 10x as long as it takes a necro. He also had to expend significant resources to do it.

Quote:
A Peacekeeper can definitely beat back a necromancer fairly easy, the problem as this discussion continues is more and more glaringly that you are not very good at that tactical part of SK, and want the game to be tailored to you.

Cool, thanks for trying to use ad hominem to obfuscate the truth. You can say whatever you want about me and my tactical abilities; it doesn't change necromancers having 10 GM barbarian NPCs outputting vastly too much damage.

Quote:
You keep bringing up "ohnoes they can kill NPCs, noooooooooooo".

Who wants to build cool and supposedly challenging areas that necromancers just run all over on the solo tip? Who wants to participate in CRS when a necromancer can solo-jack relics in just a few minutes? Who wants to go out to an area where most people need a big group only to get hunted down and ganked by a solo necromancer because he could plow through all of the NPCs along the way without breaking a sweat?

Quote:
Necromancers are basically a sorceror with more DPS and absolutely zero utility.

I agree if, by "zero utility," you mean one of the best spell lists on SK, brandish, zap, and recite. Oh, and access to areas that other people have to struggle to get into. Did I miss anything?

Quote:
Necromancers don't do anything except get NPCs and zerg stuff. That's what they do. The other class you pointed out that has similar weaknesses also has things like the consecrate spell and other utility things in exchange. This isn't WoW, or a fighting game. Each class has different perks and downfalls and everything is not balanced 1vs1. Team Lightie is always more heavily populated than team darkie, and Necromancers are the most hated thing in the game and therefore have an edge.

We've already been over this. It's not WoW or a fighting game, and everything is not balanced 1 vs. 1 - nowhere close. But, that's no excuse for one class to have an edge over every other class in the game and for said edge to be so ridiculously large.

Quote:
Who remembers the days of no summon lag, 40 wraith summon ganks or no timer on energy drain?

Who cares.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:35 pm 
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I will say this, while a necromancer probably can't put down outer guardians in 3 round..A certain necro has been routinely killing both a cabal's outer and inner guardian in 40-50 seconds flat. One time it was as low as 29 seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Location: Pearl Harbor, HI
SK Character: That one guy who pk'd you.
What about getting rid of order all?


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:06 pm 
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I hope that's a joke. That's a terrible idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:19 pm 
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SK Character: That one guy who pk'd you.
How so? It would boost blindness for preventing people to order all, and you have to consider who you'd use to bash who.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 pm 
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For one, its already been tried and rescinded. Two, it would make the necromancer wraith army all but pointless.

No "fix" is needed, but things like changing animate classes, removing bash, lowering level, or having order not work across the ethereal plane are far less debilitating than what you are suggesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:43 pm 
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jhorleb wrote:
No "fix" is needed

You must be joking. Just a few posts prior someone said a necromancer solo'd two cabal guardians in 29 seconds. You don't think that needs to be fixed? That's beyond ridiculous, and no other class comes anywhere close to that.Cabal guardians are not meant to be solo'd in under 30 seconds. That's the definition of broken. Undead armies take out the top scout pet in 1.5 rounds. They take out GM barbarians in 2-3 rounds. They can do 5x the damage per round of the next best class, and that's without even using double finger of death scrolls to augment their damage output. In fact, that's while they are in the ethereal plane doing nothing. How is any of this justifiable or even remotely close to being balanced?

I agree that making a change to "order all" is not the answer. The problem is the over-the-top melee damage output, especially when it comes to PvE. Bringing that into the realm of sanity is a good place to start.


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 Post subject: Re: Ethereal and necros
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
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Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
Your problem is, you are apparently not very good mechanically, and are assuming that is a problem with the game.

To explain:

1) Taking out a scout pet in 1.5 rounds is not a big deal, as scouts have access to the third row.

2) Taking out GM barbarians in 2-3 rounds means that the barbarian in question was a clueless newbie, not that there is a problem with the game. For example, I offer the time recently that Surrit level patrolled my wolverine char Logan. I had no weapon on to parry with, and yet I lasted 7 or so rounds because I was stance defensive and had armor/sanc/luck buffs (still died because I was afk taking a dump, but that's not really material to the conversation). If I had been at the PC, I'd have survived no problem. If I was unbuffed, I'd be behind a pet so as not to die like a newbie. Ardith might complain about Necros being unkillable by him because they're a fairly hard counter to melee, but that's called sour grapes, not game balance issues. His elf merc would have no problem tanking a wraith army for 7 rounds. In fact, any well built, reasonably geared, non clueless newbie has no trouble tanking a wraith army for several rounds. Yes, they will lose 1v1, but they will have ample opportunity to flee, quaff recall, or tank tank tank while their friends deal with the back row necro.

You are assuming too much about how the game "should be" instead of just playing it as it is, because you are bad, and you want the game to be dumbed down to your level instead of improving yourself.


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