Shattered Kingdoms

I am coming out strong against ratcheting down animate.

I might be reading into their texts, but I'm pretty sure that patrisaurus, Edoras, and whoever is sock-puppeting stylesP are too.


In fact, I wish I could make a Bill Maher New Rule ™: you're not allowed to suggest PK-related changes unless you have actually played the target class and successfully beaten a prepared character.

Finally, the player you are talking about is syndal: I imagine that in the four weeks she's had this char (based on the fact that she started posting PK logs this week, and syn is hella slow at leveling), she's probably logged 100+ hours -- which is half of my character's playtime. Also, syndal will beat you (me, all of us) no matter what combination you pick.

Just imagine how much easier it would have been if you could have been an ethereal barbarian or been able to use a spell that prevented 99% of NPCs from being able to see you. You would only need to fight like 3 or 4 NPCs to make it all the way to the wastelands. But, then, that wouldn't be the same scenario as being able to cruise through ANY of the outer planes and single-handed wipe out every NPC in the area. It also wouldn't let you recall back, solo a couple of cabal guardians for fun in under a minute, then go drain a tribunal's coffers in a few more minutes.

Do you see the difference?

That one time right after you killed Cendre and then you asked for my help in Nerina I was wondering if we were finally going to go to odds. I was sad to see Alaric go just because we never had the chance to face off.

But you have not made any sort of argument for it. Why do necros need to have such astronomical melee damage? Is it good for SK that it is this way? Would it improve SK overall to bring their melee damage down to a level in line with the rest of the MUD? Would it be better for PvE balance for them not to be able to solo the entire game and cut boss NPCs to ribbons?


They have been coming out hard against me, not any of my ideas. Sort of like...


... this. But maybe we should ask the player of a necromancer. Maybe we should check out Zerel's afterlife thread just for fun. You know, the one where he laments that it's no fun to faceroll people in a game without a lot of skill involved. I can see how a necromancer's player would say that. Or maybe we should consider Tragonis's comment about necromancers being "a lazy class" that is easy to run over the game with.


But Syn vs. Syn swashbuckler vs. necromancer. Who wins? I think we know the answer to that one.

I don't really have much more to add to the argument that I haven't already stated, except to say that this elitist attitude is horrifying and drives newbs away. EVERYONE'S opinion should matter, because EVERYONE is subjected to PK regardless of skill, attitude, level, or prep work. There's a variety of people who play SK, and as long as the arguments are thoughtful and relate to the playerbase as a whole, everyone should be able to freely state their opinions and feelings. Styles has made a lot of good points - even Dulrik said so.

But I guess fully prepped, you guys could totally beat Dulrik even though his IMM class is so OPed.

There's compromise to be had, but please don't come in here with that kind of attitude. Fully prepped hardcore PK players are not in danger of losing SK any time soon, don't worry.

+1 Jennbo!

Nightwing went a little extreme on that idea, but it's worthy of noting that all of the pro players do not think that necros need to be nerfed. I think perhaps a more fitting application of that rule here would be "If all the veteran players disagree, then you should reconsider the notion that everyone but you is wrong."

You're entitled to voice your opinion, and your opinion should carry weight when it is merited by experience, but here's the thing that rubs me about this situation: this thread is advocating changes from a position of ignorance.

Now before you break our your torch and pitchfork, let me clarify -- suppose the thread had started like this: "My character, a paladin, is having a very hard time besting a necromancer, his sworn enemy and the supposed bane of this particular class. Something seems wrong with this: paladins need to be able to better support their pet / buddy / tank so that they can withstand the overwhelming damage of a prepared necromancer long enough to generate an offensive and win." That's an idea that I might be able to get behind, because the player is talking about something from their own experience and perspective. I can offer suggestions (if not outright blatant hints) as to how to compensate for these perceived weaknesses -- which, I have tried to do, if the player has committed a glaring oversight in his own skillset. Or, since he is speaking from experience, the idea might have enough merit to mete out something reasonable that would allow his character to better stand up to his foes.

However, this thread starts out with "necros are overpowered and should lose access to etherealform or have their animates wimped or not be able to order all or spam bash or beat me," which is spoken from a position of ignorance: having never even touched the necromancer class, players are beginning to make suggestions that seem reasonable to them because it will favor their builds without really discovering the implications that it would have on the target class as a whole.

It's like the old song says (and I linked to it in my first post): you really need to walk a mile in the other guy's shoes before you criticize him. That's all I'm saying.

Cool story, Nightwing.

No matter how many hours I log on a necromancer, I'm still not going to have a mile in a "pro" player's shoes.

Now what? No opinion allowed, like Jennbo?

I have a feeling that if you rolled a necro and PKed with it a couple of times you'd start to see that just o all bash won't win you any fights unless someone is afk or not very good.