Shattered Kingdoms

You are, once again, conflating the issue of game balance by tossing around irrelevant metrics. It is always at least a little challenging to land a kill against a tough player. There is balance in the ability to quaff recall potions and escape fights so as to not die. Nobody is arguing against that. You hit upon the heart of the matter in your last sentence. It would be much easier to win a fight against Alaric 1 on 1 than it would to win a fight against Surrit 1 on 1. You can try to make the case it's because you're a tougher player than patrisaurus, but I think it's because necromancers are broken.

Yes, I am tossing around irrelevant metrics by using real-world examples, and you are tossing around perfectly acceptable evidence by making junk up and not quoting any actual characters aside from Zerel, who was not a very successful necro.

It's what I get for breaking my own rule of bothering to argue with someone who has no idea what they're talking about, but is obviously on a personal vendetta.

Real-world?

I guess you missed that example I gave.

And, Ardith, considering how terrified your hellion was of Rorey, you should probably not talk trash. I stopped buffing up for our fights because I knew you'd just recall if you didn't have 2 more PCs with you. That was a winnable fight against Dimytri and Landil, though. I should have disbanded my group.

You mean where you prove my point that a necromancer without a wraith army can actually be handled 1 on 1 by a warlock? No, i saw that. I saw a necromancer with no wraiths, who played an encounter very poorly, and who was fighting law NPCs lose to a prepared warlock... barely. And the necromancer still survived. Like I said: check and mate. Thanks for giving us some concrete evidence to work with.

I'd like to see styles roll a necro and then steamroll the mud to prove his point.

You are just being obtuse and ridiculous at this point.

It's pretty easy for any player who knows what they're doing (which clearly is not you) to win 1 vs multiple opponent fights.

There's a reason almost every single warlock spell has range on it. They aren't meant to go 1vs1 in the same room with every class.

There's a reason most of the classes in the game get access to bow/crossbow.

I meant the post about Rorey that dismantled Galactus's entire argument.

I guess I'll point to Tarconus for an example of a barbarian who 1v1'd necros and their entire armies into the ground. Tarconus vs Zerel in A'van. Ambushed by fully equipped undead army, Tarconus kills almost everything in sight, with the necromancer recalling.
Tarconus + priest vs Surrit + entire army + MC merc. Both darkies recall after a single round of combat.
Tarconus shows up to fight Surrit + army 1v1 a handful of times, and Surrit recalls immediately (sorry, Edoras, you know it happened).
Tarconus + priest stumble on Zerel + undead army + Sorc + hellion + trio + grouped guard NPCs. Close match that ends in me recalling. Not clear if I'd have been able to win if I had stuck around. The priest got hit with fear pretty quickly in that fight.
Tarconus dies to Surrit when Surrit has help from a PC swashbuckler who taunts him, a PC rogue who spam circle stabs him, and Surrit's army bashes him. Note that I would have escaped with ease if I had not been taunted for several rounds despite being hit by a dozen things.

Great. By my math the necromancers died zero times and landed one kill on you in examples you cherry-picked. Overall it sounds like you won some, you lost some, and you came out on the losing end in the jloot department.

Anyhow, do you have a log of you soloing two cabal guardians in 30 seconds with Tarconus, or one wherein you show melee output that is even remotely in line with an undead army's output? That would be more relevant than these PK anecdotes, because as you demonstrated with the log you cited of Mephistir beating Nivienne, any player can make mistakes. We don't know what errors these people made in their encounters with you. Maybe they zapped themselves with fireball wands or something like that.

There's no point in you continuing to post in this thread when you have already acknowledged that necromancers could have their animated armies toned down and still be a very viable, very powerful class. They will still be competitive even if their NPCs are no longer GM, bashing, berserking, damage output engines. This is the ONLY relevant point. You can tone down animate dead and necromancers will still be at least as good as other classes. They will not be underpowered, yet currently they are clearly overpowered. No one has countered this point, because it can't be countered. It's the only reasonable conclusion anyone using a logical analysis of the facts can reach.