Shattered Kingdoms

You don't seem to understand that ad hominem is an argument fallacy. You are making a fallacious argument when you try to discredit me instead of my ideas, the latter of which you simply cannot do.

Nivienne did not die due to 5 (it was actually 7, I thought) players rolling up on her. She died to two BoGs. This is something that, really, any paladin could do by standing behind a pet with sanctuary.

Edoras is focusing in on and crying about Styles when several other "big time" people have commented saying almost exactly what Styles has said, and Dulrik even said Styles had some points, and it seems like Dulrik's going to implement this stuff whether Edoras argues about it or not. Again, Edoras arguing for the sake of arguing. Why is this thread going on again?

I'm really, really tired of the "pro elitist" attitude here. I'm glad everyone's opinions seem to matter to Dulrik and the rest of IMM staff even if they don't matter to the people who say you should have already "won SK" in order to count on the forums. So really, all the elitist arguing is moot at this point.

How do we know StylesP's opinion is valid? Why aren't we going on a witch hunt against him?

Actually, I've discredited both, and provided evidence for both. I've played on both sides of the necromancer too. All you've said is a bunch of stuff that you've made up. The only piece of evidence you've actually brought to the table is that Zerel supposedly said they were so overpowered he deleted, although Baldric disproved that pretty hilariously.

It's true that a paladin could kill a sleeping, unprepared necromancer with no wraith army. Nobody is going to dispute that, and that has nothing to do with anything that has been discussed in this thread. But, in the actual log, there was more to it than "a paladin killed a necro in 2 BoGs". Who knows what information has been omitted from all of these other examples people keep citing?

Also, it was three bolts of glory. See what I mean?

Well, that's fine for you to say, but I was there. The rest of us contributed things like, "Rhakeesh, you should bolt of glory that deep-elf."

I'm not saying that you are wrong about necromancers being OP or whatever. I'm just saying that in the case of Nivienne she got owned by just the paladin. The only thing the rest of us did, besides tell him to kill her, was make sure he didn't die to the undead after the fact.

Gee, I don't know, but maybe you could actually go look them up and figure it out for yourself? Every single log that's been quoted here is publicly available. If you were more than an insufferable troll you would actually look for yourself instead of going "they're obviously lying because their actual examples discredit my ideas."

Let's be honest. She got owned by herself. And if it had been a solo paladin, that paladin may not have gotten the THREE bolts of glory needed to kill her off before the undead killed his pet and him. And, even if he did, the undead may have finished him off before he could get away. And all of this against a sleeping, unprepared necromancer. Imagine if she were awake and prepared?

He's saying that there are things we don't know. In the logs where the necros get owned, what were the necro's buffs? Were they missing a key buff that could have been the difference between losing and winning. If the one that beat the necro did so because the player forgot a buff, then that's a player mistake. If, with the buff that was missing, the necro had a greater chance of winning than the opponent, the necro is at an unfair advantage, a.k.a. out of balance.

P.S. just trying to clarify Styles' point.

Furthermore, the necros are OP crowd is trying to say that just because it takes more time to get a necro to full power doesn't matter in a balance discussion. If the necro is at full power with every buff at their disposal and is played as perfectly as possible, and a paladin is at full power with every buff at their disposal and is played as perfectly as possible, chances are the necro will win.

Again, I believe this is wait they are trying to say, and if that could ever be proven to be true, then necros are out of balance and need nerfed. Otherwise, whatever.