Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate

Edoras · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:45 am

Hey Dulrik, I know that you're not a fan of making changes that actually use logs and evidence to back them up, but here's a look at how useless animate undead is now.

Code:

[HP:100%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 99%]
> 
A Peacekeeper sentinel yells 'Invaders are attacking!'
A Peacekeeper sentinel yells 'To arms! To arms! Undead filth invade the City!'
A Peacekeeper sentinel starts to concentrate.

[HP:100%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 99%]
> 
inf

Group: Surrit's Party
(F1)  [       a wraith]    (F2)  [a shadowy wight]    (F3)  [     a skeleton]
(M1)  [        a ghoul]    (M2)  [     a barghest]    (M3)  [        a wight]
(B1)  [       a zombie]    (B2)  [         Surrit]    (B3)  [---------------]
Characters                 Rank    Pos  Here  Follow  Prone    HP    ME    PE  
Surrit                     Leader  B2   Yes   No      No     100%   93%   99%
A barghest                 Member  M2   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   97%
A shadowy wight            Member  F2   Yes   Yes     No     100%   76%   95%
A wraith                   Member  F1   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   99%
A skeleton                 Member  F3   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   98%
A ghoul                    Member  M1   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   99%
A wight                    Member  M3   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   99%
A zombie                   Member  B1   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   99%

[HP:100%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 99%]
> 
A skeleton cleaves a Peacekeeper sentinel's stomach, opening a painful, bleeding wound!
A skeleton cleaves at a Peacekeeper sentinel's head, causing a small but painful wound.
A skeleton strikes suddenly, cleaving at a Peacekeeper sentinel's chest!  Some GUTS fall!
A Peacekeeper sentinel's punch at a shadowy wight's stomach is deflected by ivory hide.
A wraith misses a Peacekeeper sentinel.
A Peacekeeper sentinel doubles over as he is struck by a shadowy wight's thrashing tail!
A shadowy wight's acidic bite lightly burns a Peacekeeper sentinel's left leg.
A shadowy wight's acidic bite burns a Peacekeeper sentinel's waist.
A shadowy wight misses a Peacekeeper sentinel.
A shadowy wight's acidic bite starts a Peacekeeper sentinel's waist on fire.

[HP:100%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 99%]
> 
con sent

A Peacekeeper sentinel utters the words, 'parl xafe'.
A Peacekeeper sentinel utters a word of divine power!
You are struck down!
You feel a brief tingling sensation.
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath injures you.
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath decimates a zombie.
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath DEMOLISHES a wight!
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath MASSACRES a ghoul!
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath *** ANNIHILATES *** a skeleton!
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath maims a wraith!
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath mauls a shadowy wight.
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath maims a wraith.
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath MUTILATES a wraith!
A Peacekeeper sentinel's divine wrath maims a wraith!

[HP: 85%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 99%]
> A Peacekeeper sentinel is no match for you.

[HP: 85%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 99%]
> 
inf

Group: Surrit's Party
(F1)  [       a wraith]    (F2)  [a shadowy wight]    (F3)  [     a skeleton]
(M1)  [        a ghoul]    (M2)  [     a barghest]    (M3)  [        a wight]
(B1)  [       a zombie]    (B2)  [         Surrit]    (B3)  [---------------]
Characters                 Rank    Pos  Here  Follow  Prone    HP    ME    PE  
Surrit                     Leader  B2   Yes   No      No      85%   93%   99%
A barghest                 Member  M2   Yes   Yes     No     100%  100%   97%
A shadowy wight            Member  F2   Yes   Yes     No      79%   76%   94%
A wraith                   Member  F1   Yes   Yes     No      65%  100%   99%
A skeleton                 Member  F3   Yes   Yes     No      32%  100%   97%
A ghoul                    Member  M1   Yes   Yes     No      52%  100%   99%
A wight                    Member  M3   Yes   Yes     No      45%  100%   99%
A zombie                   Member  B1   Yes   Yes     No      74%  100%   99%

That's a master level holy word over half killing the only undead which can use the most basic of weapon types.

Wraiths are now useless. They don't deal damage, can't equip weapons, and have no active skills.
Zombies have higher HP than all the rest, but they, like wraiths, don't actually do any damage, so they are useless. They still get one-shotted by BoG and wrecked by holy word.
Skeletons, ghouls, and wights all do less damage than wraiths used to do, and have terrible HP. Hide and sneak are absolutely useless in every possible way, I'm not even sure why you bothered.

None of these undead gained utility in any way, but rather lost utility if they had any, so this was a pure nerf across the board.

So then let me sum up this change for you. Animate dead is now useless except for PvE for added damage, or against people with no access to holy word or a working brain. As such, now only controls are useful, reducing necros to vulnerable versions of sorcerers who lose utility and enchant and gain multiple BoGable controls, the fear spell, and the ability to be BoGed themselves. Animate may as well be an RP-only skill. But hey, at least they have warlock wraiths.

Maybe now Styles can roll a necro and enjoy getting trounced by anyone who cares to. I'm sure the RP of gaining phenomenal power in exchange for your soul will be very enjoyable when said phenomenal power sucks.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Eh, you're just knee-jerk reacting, Edoras. Each undead has special things it can do, and it probably makes more sense to mix and match your army to get those special things going rather than just cookie cutting it and going all wraiths. Also it seems like you can make a level 50 wight/zombie/etc. now.

Why can't zombies be soldiers that can rescue too?

The timer for animated undead should probably be visited again as well since it doesn't make sense for wraiths really to go collapsing right off the bat, and now that level shouldn't really matter why not let necromancers just make all of the undead right out of the gate.

Edoras · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:55 am

ninja_ardith wrote:

Eh, you're just knee-jerk reacting, Edoras. Each undead has special things it can do, and it probably makes more sense to mix and match your army to get those special things going rather than just cookie cutting it and going all wraiths.

No, I'm not knee jerk reacting. I tested it. Animated undead don't have special things they can do, they never have and now they have even less. Now they can wield, hit, and sit there. That's it. Wraiths are absolutely useless because they seriously were converted to warlocks or something else equally useless with no weapon skills, and before this change they were the only undead worth creating for a reason: All the others have crappy HP and do lousy damage compared to controls.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Edoras wrote:

ninja_ardith wrote:

Eh, you're just knee-jerk reacting, Edoras. Each undead has special things it can do, and it probably makes more sense to mix and match your army to get those special things going rather than just cookie cutting it and going all wraiths.

No, I'm not knee jerk reacting. I tested it. Animated undead don't have special things they can do, they never have and now they have even less. Now they can wield, hit, and sit there. That's it. Wraiths are absolutely useless because they seriously were converted to warlocks or something else equally useless with no weapon skills, and before this change they were the only undead worth creating for a reason: All the others have crappy HP and do lousy damage compared to controls.

Keep crying.

patrisaurus · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:16 am

Obviously I didn't think necros needed a nerf but it's clear there was at least an effort made to give back in terms of utility what was taken away in terms of raw overwhelming DPS. After the initial raaage at the enchant changes those have turned out to be really cool, so can't we give this one a pass for a month or so too?

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Yeah, you only lost the ability to 1-round hapless newbs with overwhelming dps, there may be some cool features you're missing, like the poison bite, plague bite, <adhesive medical strip> that the wraiths use, and chill touch of skeletons.

Only thing that I think should be changed is that zombies should be the rescuing minions that are foot soldiers.

Edoras · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:37 am

Except that none of those things are going to activate unless you "o all hit" someone, which is a pretty big time commitment when your undead all get 2 shotted by holy word.

patrisaurus · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:39 am

Don't they autoassist if you put them in formation?

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Edoras wrote:

Except that none of those things are going to activate unless you "o all hit" someone, which is a pretty big time commitment when your undead all get 2 shotted by holy word.

I'd probably listen to your arguments if you didn't solely focus your arguments on fighting just 1 class out of 13. Maybe 1.33 classes out of 13 since priests can be any of three auras.

Necromancers still have a ton of potential. Maybe they won't be able to grief cabals, and tribunals solo now, and since that seems to be your playstyle, you're mad.

Edoras · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 am

patrisaurus wrote:

Don't they autoassist if you put them in formation?

Yes, but I'm sure that you can figure out that since they can't use their attacks when armed or when reaching that means that you're sitting at most with 2 of them doing their "neat tricks" which are effectually useless.

I never used my necro to grief cabals solo, and I've farmed bounty NPCs on every character I've played that has become outlawed.

And hey ardith, last I checked, 2 classes out of 13 has access to holy word, not to mention anyone in a tribunal which widens that access pretty heavily. Seems funny that you'd neglect to mention that, considering that your main is, after all, a tribunal merc with access to a GM level paladin.

Shattered Kingdoms

Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate

Who is online