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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:02 pm 
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I stopped playing a necromancer after I got an 80:1 K/D ratio. The class was simply out of whack, and we didn't have cute shadowy lathrons back then, in fact I only ran around with 6 wraiths. There's also no reason a caster class needed to have the highest melee dps in the game. That's just plain stupid. If you want to play a warrior there are 3 classes already designated for that. Necromancer is on the other end, in the caster section.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
I'm sorry, but I can't take the logs seriously until you at least get new corpses that show their origin. I cannot guarantee that whatever old corpses you were using even work properly under the new system (although they PROBABLY do).


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Yes Ardith, I have seen the logs where your necro beat people who committed suicide. Pilnor would have trashed your necro.


And Dulrik, that most recent log I quoted was from before the nerf with wraiths, which had more HP and much more DPS than all the damage dealing animates now, if you'll notice they didn't get a single strike. The log before that (Where a GM pally dropped half the wights and ***obliterated*** the rest) was from today.

I also put an unenchanted hunting spear on a shadowy wight, and in the 4 rounds it took him to kill a zombie with armor, a shield, and the armor spell, he never missed.


Last edited by Edoras on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
Wraiths have exactly the same number of hit points today as they did yesterday. They weren't modified. To be frank, the only modification of hit points I did was to increase a few of the other types.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Yes, wraiths have exactly the same number of hit points, except now they do zero damage, so if you want damage-dealing undead you have to use undead with approximately 30% less HP, and they still don't carry berserk/fury, so they'll bounce off sanc and get dispelled 50% of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:26 am
Posts: 1252
SK Character: Rolf
Edoras wrote:
Opey wrote:
Ok, but how is 2 rounding a GM warrior in one of the most militaristic groups balanced?
When said GM warrior is an MR barb and you're using enchanted purely physical claymores. Had Zonin been a normal barbarian with SA and sanc it would have been impossible to kill him before 2 holy words got dropped in that scenario.

...

Necros have absolutely huge, glaring weaknesses. They are personally the weakest class in the entire game, next to sorcerers.



Sorry, no. 2 rounding a GM warrior is not balanced.

And I'm assuming that what you mean here is commentary on the HP pool of a sorc and necro. Otherwise that makes no sense at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:47 pm
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Location: Virginia
SK Character: Amorette
Maybe Edoras should play Magic the Gathering


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:31 pm 
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ericopey wrote:
Sorry, no. 2 rounding a GM warrior is not balanced.
2 rounding a GM warrior who chose to play a character with zero buffs seems pretty balanced to me, when if he had survived 3-4 rounds he would have won the fight without any casualties. My hammer GNOME merc (Emphasis on the gnome) took the full brunt of an entire undead army before this nerf and held it with zero backup, and he was actually missing sanctuary in that fight.

So then, let's talk about balanced then as far as what raw damage is necessary to be successful, in that case: Let's take your griffon MR barbarian for example. On account of IA bash and MR it is impossible to keep him from spam eating mistletoe, and since you can eat 2 a round, I'm thinking that's what, 30% HP healing every round? It's actually more than that, judging from this log of a griffon MR barbarian:
Code:
[HP: 73] [ME: 53] [PE: 96]

You pound a giant legionnaire's head, causing a pulsating wound.
A jaundiced male human's flaming bite starts your chest on fire.
Your shield blocks a jaundiced male human's attack.
A jaundiced male human's flaming bite starts your chest on fire.
You dodge a giant legionnaire's attack.
Your shield blocks a giant legionnaire's attack.
You dodge a giant legionnaire's attack.
A giant legionnaire slices at your chest, DISEMBOWELING you!
Overall, a giant legionnaire has some small wounds and bruises.

[HP: 60] [ME: 53] [PE: 96]
You eat a small green branch covered in red berries.
Your spell of blindness appears to have no effect.
You resist the effect of your own spell.
You resist the effect of your own spell.

[HP: 76] [ME: 53] [PE: 96]
You eat a small green branch covered in red berries.
Your spell of blindness appears to have no effect.
You resist the effect of your own spell.
You resist the effect of your own spell.

[HP: 92] [ME: 53] [PE: 96]
You eat a small green branch covered in red berries.
Your spell of blindness appears to have no effect.
You resist the effect of your own spell.
You resist the effect of your own spell.

[HP: 100] [ME: 53] [PE: 96]

A giant legionnaire dodges your attack.
A jaundiced male human's flaming bite barely burns your chest.
A jaundiced male human's flaming bite lightly burns your chest.
A giant legionnaire slices at your chest, causing a deep gash.
Your shield blocks a giant legionnaire's attack.
You dodge a giant legionnaire's attack.
Overall, a giant legionnaire has some small wounds and bruises.
But whatever.

In other words, assuming that my necro got the perfect engagement and I had enough dps to 2-round you, you would take 50% damage every round and heal 30%, meaning that you would actually survive 4 rounds at least (down to 50%, to 30%, to 10%, and then dead): And that's ignoring the fact that you're going to drop one undead instantly on account of aura of negation, and at no point in time are you ever forced to stay in the fight. You can simply flee or recall whenever you want.

Now, however, let's be more accurate: A fully equipped army nowadays with the loss of fury on animates will probably do about 30% damage to Hoch, and that's if I happen to actually get them to o all hit you. And unless you go afk, or run out of mistletoe and forget to type the "flee" command or to set your wimpy to 15, my undead will never, ever kill you, and there's absolutely nothing else I can do about it.

Good balance argument. Real good. Why did we nerf necros and not "eat mistletoe" again?


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:29 am
Posts: 753
Dulrik isn't saying the logs aren't from today. He is saying that until you get brand new corpses, animate from the newly killed N/PC to show who/what you are animating, the logs are skewed to not really show any truly helpful evidence.

Instead of seeing:

Quote:
A hideous dark wraith floats near its master.


The logs should be showing something like:

Quote:
A wraith of some hapless N/PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Code Update 12/10/2012 Q&A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Edoras wrote:
And Dulrik, that most recent log I quoted was from before the nerf with wraiths, which had more HP and much more DPS than all the damage dealing animates now, if you'll notice they didn't get a single strike. The log before that (Where a GM pally dropped half the wights and ***obliterated*** the rest) was from today.


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