Shattered Kingdoms

Please tell us why it's a bug.

The code update where this feature was first introduced says trained MR applies to non-spell sources. This implies untrained MR does not (or else it why would it specify that trained MR does). No subsequent updates that I have read indicate that this was expanded to non-trained MR. Now superman is saying a rogue with MR is negating weapon damage from a magical source, but we all know a rogue cannot have trained MR. A contradiction. Thus I have arrived at the conclusion that superman has found a bug, but that nobody else consulted the update text, so all involved parties thought it was supposed to work this way and thought it was worth complaining about. I maintain it is not supposed to work that way and is therefore a bug.

The other possibilities are that something else is negating the damage or that someone has figured out a way to train MR with a rogue, but I am assuming the aforementioned parties have ruled these out. As such, this being a bug is the only logical conclusion.

I have a feeling that Dulrik will look at this and go "Yeah, that sounds balanced" because he's apparently looking to make everyone roll with MR.

As I stated earlier the best systems are the ones that force you to choices.

Yes, it should be possible to become virtually immune to spells. (I say virtually as everyone deserves a chance to land a hit, spell, etc. on critical rolls)

BUT the question is at the sacrifice of what else?

Better armor against physical attack, better protection against magical weaponry, equipment that increase your own damage, etc.

There should be trade offs to be made. And I think that must begin at being sure that each stat has its own roll.

What seems to be the intended roll of MR is to provide protection against spell saves.

(Yes that probably means the save versus half damage) but should it provide immunity to damage beyond that opportunity to save (and I'm not sure that it does - as always I'm looking at this from an outsiders perspective still). [A thought - Is it possible that MR provides the opportunity in conjunction with other saves, to save for 50% from a spell twice? Perhaps that is how it is working?]

IF MR does what MP does and is yet better, there is a question to be put forward, what is the point of MP? I would like to think that there might be a reasonable debate at a character level to decide upon which stat to improve.

It is something to think about, certainly. I cannot really say more than that, because I have no verification of how the code works or the balancing mechanisms that are intended to keep things in line.

But back to the debate, the question is should a magical weapon be consider a spell, and be subject to spell saves?

Perhaps the solution is to give whatever the barbarian's skill is some degree of Magical Protection in it's buff, and then tweak how Magical Resistance works so it does not cross over between the different goals.

MR was always thought of as a detriment rather than an asset for most of the history of this game. There are certainly major drawbacks even now, the largest being unable to be buffed and unreliable access to healing.

Except you know, MR people can still be buffed and have even better access to healing than non-MR. That's the problem with buffing MR so much. Anyone wearing MR just has to take their EQ off, get buffed, put it back on. Any barbs that trained MR just have to find a bard to sing songs of magic, or just not train MR all the way. Train it 5-8 times, and wear MR eq to get the rest of the MR you need.

Historically, this was because A) enchanting for MR was next to impossible, and B) you needed a large, large amount of MR to be close to 100% resistant, whereas with minimal MR (Which happened all the time pre-enchant changes) you were usually inconvenienced by it more than anything.

Since then, MR has been buffed in a LOT of ways, some of them were apparently stealth changes.
A) You can now reach 100% resistance.
B) You can be healed by resistance from MR.
C) You can now enchant directly for MR. This is HUGE.
D) You need about half as much MR to be effective (100% resistant) than you used to need just to be close to 100% resistant. Apparently to make up for this all MR EQ was at some point lowered by a static 1-2 enchants across the board, but that doesn't in any way make up for the fact that enchanting for MR is sooooo so so so so much easier than it use to be.
E) Having MR on your gear or training MR makes you take half damage from half magical weapons, and COMPLETELY IMMUNE to enery weapons with energy attacks. In other words, the highest level gear is completely useless against someone who has MR trained.

Since obtaining saves is brutally difficult now with the fact that you can only enchant jewelry with saves, and that those saves don't even stack, it's much much much more advantageous and more rewarding to enchant for MR on your armor, which stacks and which can even give 100% protection against spells.

The benefit for MR really needs to be toned back. The fact that you are 100% immune to magic/magic weapons and that you're 50% immune to half magic weapons (Which comprise a -lot- of weapons) is way too sick. Either that or bugged.

Do we know for sure that MR causes you to take less damage from magical weapons? From my own experiences, that does not seem to be the case at all.

Any barbarian who trains full MR and uses a bard to acquire buffs is breaking the RP of training full MR (which is to say that your character has a hatred for magic. The character trained MR for a reason, and it is to resist magic, not to accept magic when it is convenient for him/her to do so).

Yes, MR causes you to completely nullify damage from magic/magic weapons. That is why I made this thread in the first place.

Opey, your griffon MR barb was "unaffected" by the Subram-Dulzar spheres life drain. This is also true for someone wearing MR gear.

For the record, damage reduction was only supposed to apply to trained MR. It'll go on my bug list.