Berserk/specialize

Dulrik · **Posted:** Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:07 am

I am pretty sure this is because without haste, no amount of +speed will let you go beyond a certain number of attacks per round. Should it stay that way? Not sure, but probably so. Haste has a penalty when it wears off to make up for you getting that bonus attack, so there's some balance there.

Teh_Peso · **Posted:** Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:44 am

In all honesty, I like being able to validly use a scythe and other weapons now, its made the game more fun in testing, and murdering.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Personally, I'm not sold on wimping speed enchants, and haste, but I do think barbs, and mercs are too good compared to other classes, and the amount of buffs that can give +accuracy right now is absurd.

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

Theldreg wrote:

Imperialistic_Babble wrote:

This already happened with mercenaries. Barbarians are currently the only class able to get to 6 attacks with a pike or 5 with a massive weapon through speed enchants + haste/fury.

Turns out this is not accurate. I just did some testing with a mercenary. You can still get to five attacks with a hasted, specialized merc on a massive weapon with speed enchants. So I assume you can get to 6 on a pike or something. Would be easy for Ardith to verify on a rapier.

So I return to my previous position that if we're going to nerf #attacks, the easiest way would be to make it so that haste does not stack with weapon speed enhancements. In fact it already seems like Dulrik was trying to do this with the way the affects list no longer shows the haste weapon speed effect after 6 enchants. But for whatever reason haste still adds an attack even when it doesn't look like it should be doing anything.

This is not true. I just tested out my bill spec with 6 speed enchants and haste. I only needed 3 speed enchants prior to the changes to spam 5 attacks a round. Now it seems I can only spam 4 attacks a round with that setup. Not sure what is going on there.

Theldreg · **Joined:** Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:00 pm **Posts:** 40

ninja_ardith wrote:

Theldreg wrote:

Imperialistic_Babble wrote:

This already happened with mercenaries. Barbarians are currently the only class able to get to 6 attacks with a pike or 5 with a massive weapon through speed enchants + haste/fury.

Turns out this is not accurate. I just did some testing with a mercenary. You can still get to five attacks with a hasted, specialized merc on a massive weapon with speed enchants. So I assume you can get to 6 on a pike or something. Would be easy for Ardith to verify on a rapier.

So I return to my previous position that if we're going to nerf #attacks, the easiest way would be to make it so that haste does not stack with weapon speed enhancements. In fact it already seems like Dulrik was trying to do this with the way the affects list no longer shows the haste weapon speed effect after 6 enchants. But for whatever reason haste still adds an attack even when it doesn't look like it should be doing anything.

This is not true. I just tested out my bill spec with 6 speed enchants and haste. I only needed 3 speed enchants prior to the changes to spam 5 attacks a round. Now it seems I can only spam 4 attacks a round with that setup. Not sure what is going on there.

Weird. I used a battle axe and it definitely worked to 5 attacks with neutral stance and gm haste. No idea what's going on.

Do you get six attacks hasted with your rapier?

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

I do indeed spam 6 attacks with the rapier. No speed enchants necessary. Personally I feel that merc and barb should just be wimped all the same. Specialize should give buffs to speed, berserk buffs damage for the barb, and finesse buffs to accuracy for the swashbuckler. I primarily wrote this is a whine as to swashbucklers being the worst class in the game. They really are trash. Part of the problem is that the other classes are just *soooo* much better. Mercs, and barbs get access to every weapon class in the game, are straight up better tanks because of shield block, and added protection from shields, and have better dps with two-handed weapons, and have higher versatility with weapons with reach.

Theldreg · **Joined:** Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:00 pm **Posts:** 40

FYI, here's a battle-axe test with a specialized mercenary hasted getting 5 attacks. Wonder why it's not working for bills.

>

Quote:

A white-haired female deep-elf chops a slim male deep-elf's left leg, cutting flesh as if it were butter!
A white-haired female deep-elf chops a slim male deep-elf's stomach, cutting a deep gash.
A white-haired female deep-elf chops at a slim male deep-elf's right leg, tearing open a bleeding wound!
A white-haired female deep-elf chops a slim male deep-elf's chest, causing a gaping wound!
A white-haired female deep-elf chops a slim male deep-elf's chest, causing a gaping wound!
A slim male deep-elf misses a white-haired female deep-elf.
A slim male deep-elf slices at a white-haired female deep-elf's chest, barely scratching her.

[HP:100%] [ME: 70%] [PE: 96%]

A white-haired female deep-elf's blitzkrieg injures a slim male deep-elf.
A white-haired female deep-elf chops at a slim male deep-elf's right wrist, causing a big gash.
A white-haired female deep-elf chops a slim male deep-elf's head, tearing open a bleeding wound!
A white-haired female deep-elf chops at a slim male deep-elf's chest, DISEMBOWELING him!
A white-haired female deep-elf strikes suddenly, chopping at a slim male deep-elf's chest! Some GUTS fall!
A slim male deep-elf misses a white-haired female deep-elf.
A slim male deep-elf misses a white-haired female deep-elf.

[HP:100%] [ME: 70%] [PE: 96%]
>
A slim male deep-elf dodges a white-haired female deep-elf's attack.
A white-haired female deep-elf strikes suddenly, chopping at a slim male deep-elf's chest! Some GUTS fall!
A white-haired female deep-elf chops a slim male deep-elf's chest. A slim male deep-elf falls on his knees and collapses.
A slim male deep-elf is DEAD!!
You hear a slim male deep-elf's death cry.

[HP:100%] [ME: 70%] [PE: 96%]

Galryae sells ritual items for use in the worship of the Icemaiden, including
holy symbols. She is wearing a light mesh armor made of some strange gray
material, as well as a swirling black robe. Her stark-white hair falls
halfway down her back, and seems to be a source of pride for her. She glances
at you when you enter, but does not make any other moves of recognition.
Overall, a white-haired female deep-elf is in excellent condition.

A white-haired female deep-elf is using:
<worn as armor> steel plate mail (brand new)
<right hand> (Humming) a blue-steel battle axe (brand new)

Galactus · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm **Posts:** 906

if I remember right, isn't there a speed penalty for using a reach weapon in a non-reach situation?

If so, were you testing the bill in a non-reach situation?

FinneyOwnzU · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am **Posts:** 1500

Theldreg wrote:

FYI, here's a battle-axe test with a specialized mercenary hasted getting 5 attacks. Wonder why it's not working for bills.

The bill is a massive weapon, battle axe is not.

Tragonis · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:43 am

Battle axe is massive foo.

Shattered Kingdoms

Berserk/specialize

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