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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am
Posts: 1500
Rodwen wrote:
I lied. So sue me.

Hey man, a lot of people have thought of this idea and a lot of us like it, while some don't, however, Dulrik has said emphatically, Hell no!

It is not a mistake on the code's part that you attacked your own group. It was your mistake, so why should the code have to account for your mistake?

And yes, a mercenary in a group that consists of only himself can retreat, and also rally with rallying cry.


The targeting code on SK is illogical - it is an interface issue that somehow has morphed into an acceptable "feature" of the game. The code should default targeting to directions and then names and finally adjectives outside of your party.

Otherwise, you end up with absurd friendly-fire situations. When I played a warlock many years ago, there was a character in my cabal whose name started with the letters "se" - needless to say, everytime I wanted to range cast a fireball to the southeast, it would default to his name and the fireball would blow up in our room.

That is part of the reason I included the alias in the zMUD package that expands all directional commands. As a player (especially a new one to the game), I really shouldn't need to use a third party program to interpret directional commands. Instead, the code should follow an order of operations: directions -> names -> adjectives outside of the character's party.

The same "feature" also occurred with my last character, a barrel-chested giant. Anytime someone with a "barghest" pet was around - I would benefit from enemies misfiring their spells. I specifically avoided buying a barghest for that reason.

As for flee, I have never played a game that allowed PK where you could select the direction you fled. It is already easy enough to escape most PK situations with recall potions, ethereal wands, etc. - I don't think we need to make it even easier by allowing flee to be targeted.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:07 am 
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FinneyOwnzU wrote:
Otherwise, you end up with absurd friendly-fire situations. When I played a warlock many years ago, there was a character in my cabal whose name started with the letters "se" - needless to say, everytime I wanted to range cast a fireball to the southeast, it would default to his name and the fireball would blow up in our room.

That is part of the reason I created the alias in the zMUD package that expands all directoinal commands. As a player (especially a new one to the game), I really shouldn't need to use a third party program to interpret directional commands. Instead, the code should follow an order of operations: directions -> names -> adjectives outside of the character's party.

The game currently works differently and would require you to type it out. I'm glad you were so thoughtful as to compile a list of aliases that would minimize the friendly-fire, but it's still a mistake on the part of the player for not having the forethought to check or be aware of adjectives that align with the shorthand directions.

FinneyOwnzU wrote:
The same "feature" also occurred with my last character, a barrel-chested giant. Anytime someone with a "barghest" pet was around - I would benefit from enemies misfiring their spells. I specifically avoided buying a barghest for that reason.

This is actually a rule that I'm not sure is documented, but I know people have been punished for purposefully making adjectives that aligned with a pet they planned to use with the purpose of misdirection. Golden-eyed male halfling scout that always travels with the golden-maned lion, for example. That's against a rule of the game. Well done on your part for avoiding punishment by just being courteous.

FinneyOwnzU wrote:
As for flee, I have never played a game that allowed PK where you could select the direction you fled. It is already easy enough to escape most PK situations with recall potions, ethereal wands, etc. - I don't think we need to make it even easier by allowing flee to be targeted.

We are in agreement.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:16 am 
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Rodwen wrote:
The game currently works differently and would require you to type it out. I'm glad you were so thoughtful as to compile a list of aliases that would minimize the friendly-fire, but it's still a mistake on the part of the player for not having the forethought to check or be aware of adjectives that align with the shorthand directions.


You have obviously bought into the games flawed targeting code as a "feature" - I disagree.

Go play pretty much any other PK MUD and take note of how their targeting works. If SK is going to allow shortcuts for directions to work, it should incorporate that into targeting, too. It is not just adjectives either - any character with a name starting with ne, se, sw, nw will cause the problem.

Rodwen wrote:
This is actually a rule that I'm not sure is documented, but I know people have been punished for purposefully making adjectives that aligned with a pet they planned to use with the purpose of misdirection. Golden-eyed male halfling scout that always travels with the golden-maned lion, for example. That's against a rule of the game. Well done on your part for avoiding punishment by just being courteous.


I am quite aware of this undocumented rule, which is why I did not buy a barghest for a pet with this character. SK could also benefit from documenting rules like this in a help file, since there is no way a new player would know other than to get his hand slapped after the rule has already been broken.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:26 am 
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Let's say targeting is changed to look at direction first, then name, then adjective. Seraniym walks up, so I try to 'kill se'. The game would respond 'Why are you trying to kill the southeast direction?' Then, would you say 'It's the mistake of the player to only type the shorthand direction instead of "ser"'?

Just throwing that idea out there. If you made a thread about the topic of targeting priorities, I'd agree with you that direction should be considered first, then name, then adjective. But that isn't what this thread is even about. So yeah, another thread derailed.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:35 am 
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Rodwen wrote:
Let's say targeting is changed to look at direction first, then name, then adjective. Seraniym walks up, so I try to 'kill se'. The game would respond 'Why are you trying to kill the southeast direction?' Then, would you say 'It's the mistake of the player to only type the shorthand direction instead of "ser"'?


The kill command does not have range, so there would be no reason for the code to check directions - that would not be difficult.

As a player of many ranged characters, I would prefer the game check directions before names and adjectives. However, it could just as easily check names, adjectives and then directions if there is a consensus that most players feel that is more intuitive.

My example was simply personal preference - I'm sure an actual implementation would be done based on community feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:25 pm
Posts: 1533
SK Character: The Shining One
FinneyOwnzU wrote:
I am quite aware of this undocumented rule, which is why I did not buy a barghest for a pet with this character. SK could also benefit from documenting rules like this in a help file, since there is no way a new player would know other than to get his hand slapped after the rule has already been broken.


I'm on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:53 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 1447
Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
I see a lot of blocked Rodwen posts and exasperated sounding replies to them. This seems as good a time as any to remind new users of the friend/foe function. It's accessible in your user control panel. Highly recommended.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:23 am
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Location: Gulf Breeze
Somehow, I knew these would be the responses you would get.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:11 am 
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 222
Location: The Dreamscape.
SK Character: Ivan, Mythros
jreid_1985 wrote:
Somehow, I knew these would be the responses you would get.


Yep, makes me think of the old farts from my other MUD.. and I was a 10 year vet there, rofl... with very few gaps in activity until the last few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible change for the flee command?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am
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Making a new "flee" class of triggers and aliases for zMUD/cMUD to print the direction you fled to the screen. Currently, the game shows the direction you run/dart/gallop/ride before it shows the flee message, which can easily be lost in scroll spam - especially since the room's description you flee into is part of the scroll before the flee message is sent by the MUD.

Code:
[HP:100%] [ME: 32%] [PE:100%]
> flee
You run north.

A dank hallway
  The finer tilings seem to have been reserved for elsewhere in this
structure, as the walls and floor here are made of a more roughly-cut
granite, with enough detail afforded to them to make the hall up to
standard, and no more.  Blotches of mud cake the ground and the air here is
dense with the stench of blood and sweat, the tinge of iron keen upon the
drafts.  The doors are nondescript, no decor or other marking adorning them.
Obvious exits: s nw(closed) ne(closed)
A silver-winged pegasus walks in from the south.
Run away!  Run away!


The new class will print in bold cyan (#CO 11) the following: You fled NORTH! (or whatever direction is captured by the variable) after the Run away! Run away! Should make it a little easier to figure out where you fled.

Not the targeted flee command you wanted, but better than nothing. I will post it in the Clients forum when I finish it.


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