Shattered Kingdoms

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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 am 
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Alera
Mechanically, I agree that it would give rogues a huge upper hand and everyone else pretty much gets jipped. I'm not saying it'd be impossible for another class to benefit from this, but it is clearly more likely that a rogue would more commonly benefit.

Roleplay wise, it would fit in with the disorientation one receives upon returning to life. I've played characters who just completely forget everything that happened the day or so prior to their death, and it can be fun, if a bit inconvenient. Not everyone wants to roleplay like that, and that's understandable.

I'm on the fence. I'm not opposed to the idea, but I feel as if it's a little too op. Maybe if there were a counter for it, such as Achernar's faith spell allowing the recently returned to remember crimes along with the other effect it has (which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to clarify here, so safe > sorry). Or perhaps the victim's natural wisdom, if high enough, would negate that effect. Iunno.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:16 am 
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 7:25 pm
Posts: 264
It's just a terrible idea, mechanically and rpishly. Can you imagine the RP?
Code:
You raise suchandsuch from the dead!

Suchandsuch says 'omg this sucks soandso just mercilessly ganked me and desecrated my corpse!!'

You say 'that does suck. you should report this violent criminal to the judge so that the guard can be on the lookout'

Suchandsuch says 'durrrr oh no i've suddenly forgotten what happened. who am i? where am i?'


You could substitute some sort of darkie manipulating the law code for their own gain rp if you wanted.

Let's not suddenly decide to make death a completely different experience than it is. Dying has never been a huge deal in SK, just a fact of life for an adventurer. Maybe traumatic at times and hard on the body and soul (spirit disorientation) but definitely a fact of life.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:52 am 
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Alera
Um, I picture it more like this, actually.

Quote:
Scaramouche says 'Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in the afterlife, no escape from reality.'

Fandango has resurrected Scaramouche!

Fandango says to Scaramouche 'Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see...'

Scaramouche says 'I see a little silhouetto of a man...'

Fandango says to Scaramouche 'Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you talk to Fandango?'

Scaramouche exclaims 'Thunderbolt and lightning, very very frightening me!'

Fandango asks Scaramouche 'Galileo?'

Scaramouche exclaims 'Galileo! Galileo Figaro!'

Fandango exclaims 'Magnifico!'

>>Scaramouche and Fandango go hunt Galileo down since the judge believes Scaramouche's memory of the incident isn't stable enough for proper testimony<<


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 1447
Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
ObjectivistActivist wrote:
This is a phenomenally terrible idea, completely out of concept for the way the game works, and the resistance to reversing the "not a crime unless you stun/kill" in context of this idea combined with the class you currently play pretty much tells me that you're just looking for a way to walk around backstabbing people with no legal risk.

Let's be clear though: This idea is terrible on its own merits, you pushing it for your own momentary gain is just equally as bad.


That's not very kind. I have ideas all the time and post stuff that would equally help or hurt me. This would benefit anyone who cleaned up their messes; it'd actually probably hurt rogues more than others because rogues typically end fights with lag on their end, allowing reporting NPCs and PCs to get a head start on them out of the room.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 1447
Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
Mcbeth wrote:
It's just a terrible idea, mechanically and rpishly. Can you imagine the RP?
Code:
You raise suchandsuch from the dead!

Suchandsuch says 'omg this sucks soandso just mercilessly ganked me and desecrated my corpse!!'

You say 'that does suck. you should report this violent criminal to the judge so that the guard can be on the lookout'

Suchandsuch says 'durrrr oh no i've suddenly forgotten what happened. who am i? where am i?'


You could substitute some sort of darkie manipulating the law code for their own gain rp if you wanted.

Let's not suddenly decide to make death a completely different experience than it is. Dying has never been a huge deal in SK, just a fact of life for an adventurer. Maybe traumatic at times and hard on the body and soul (spirit disorientation) but definitely a fact of life.


I am not suggesting that you forget what happened to you. Suchandsuch and "you" in your log would definitely have a great basis for hunting down Suchandsuch's murderer. However, RPishly, if they went to the judge and said "Hey! Soandso killed Suchandsuch!", then the judge would say "Prove it" and all they'd be able to say is "well, really, I mean it!".

MPT responded well to you.

I don't think my track record shows that I have any sort of history of trying to dodge crimes, manipulate the code, or otherwise get out of misdeeds. Also, I think that as shown with Wudan's N. Wastes banishment, even if a character "gets away with it" by the code if they're an obvious rampant criminal KDs may be prevailed upon to hand out banishment. I am not proposing a scenario in which murderers run rampant in every kingdom thumbing their noses at the law.

However, I do I think that if this were implemented it'd open up the possibility of having characters who commit very few crimes, but have a chance of getting away with them. Realistically this would require great RP (because even if you're not on the law list, you don't get away with it if everyone believes you did it and treats you accordingly, so you have to RPishly cast doubt on your victim's accusations against you) and good tactics (cleaning up yr mess). It'd also make it much easier to get away with a crime in the wilderness than in a city, which kinda makes sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 1447
Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
The rare triple post. One thing you brought to mind, that I agree with, is that tribunal characters should be exempt from this code in the nation they patrol. Naturally they would have cachet with local Judges and their credibility wouldn't be questioned if they reported someone's attack on them or others, whether or not they'd died before reporting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 7:25 pm
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I've always imagined judges as having access to true seeing and maybe some form of perfect lie detection magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 1447
Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
I'm not suggesting that the current system somehow creates an inconsistent game world. With the system the way it is I agree that's a good way to interpret it. I am suggesting a change to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 5522
That change seems like a bad idea all around, especially when there are already so many ways to not be reported for crimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dead men tell no tales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm
Posts: 906
Not sure how abused this may become but what if a rogue that kills someone under a guise, when the person reports them the guise is reported. If that char uses that guise again, they are charged with the prior crime. If they change their guise and do x more crimes, within different time periods, not just one single stacking event, the authorities catch on and change the wanted poster to the rogue's.


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