Factions and 'Defeat'

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

Trosis wrote:

Here is my solution if it were to be coded into the game.

I think there should be some sort of 'victory' or 'defeat' requirements that are built into the game. There could be a couple of requirements that have to be fulfilled before a group is actually considered to be 'defeated.' Keep a coded count of how many times an 'enemy formation' has got the killing blow on a PC of a faction they are at war with. Keep a count of how many lawmobs have been killed by an enemy formation. Keep a timer on how long a relic has been held. These sorts of things could probably be easily implemented and would give undenyable proof that an enemy faction has been defeated. Increment the requirements based on how long the war has been going on (20 kills per month and 50 NPCs per month). or something like that.

50 NPCs per month? Man, I want more NPC wars.

I got a better idea: remove 75% of law NPCs and bounty NPCs entirely. Put a 50 character death limit, and a 3 in year game limit on how long your relic has been held. If all the conditions are met, leadership loses their flags, the cabal/tribunals coffers are drained -50 obsidian (putting them in the negative if they don't have the funds), and the country becomes lawless for 2 in game years. If it's a cabal, their HQ becomes closed and all powers are disabled for 2 in game years. ALL diplomacy is set to 'truce'.

At the end of those two years, everything reverts, and 2 in game years should be enough for roleplay to happen to give another person a chance at leadership.

Then wars will get ended faster and easier with much less of this. They'll be player based and encourage player based pvp instead of NPC wars, hiding, and ninja relic yanking.

Bada-bing.

Edit: in my world, losing your relic doesn't take your cabal powers. You retain them till your forced surrender.

woahboy · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm **Posts:** 503

Most factions don't even have other people to take leadership, and the ones that do have people, a chunk of those don't -want- leadership.

It's not hard to hold a relic for a month+ either. Since we're stuck with CRS, I think the mechanics of it could use a look. A dedicated warlock on defense makes it nearly impossible to raid an HQ, whereas a barbarian or something is virtually useless.

Inera · **Joined:** Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:47 pm **Posts:** 103

Dulrik wrote:

woahboy wrote:

It's odd how people harp on about 'you don't rp death, you're terrible'. And yet, let's face it, death means nothing, to both the killer and the killed.

This is only a tiny slice of this topic, but I am going to take this opportunity to remark on this for probably the 10th time here in the forums (assuming I bring it up about once every two years). And keep in mind, I'm not just addressing woahboy. I've seen this expressed several times in the forums over the last week from various people. ALL such arguments rely on metagame OOC thinking.

It doesn't matter that death is easy to escape as a player character. If you think that makes "death doesn't matter" role-play valid, that's dead wrong. (Pun unintentional.) There's at LEAST two reasons why death needs to be respected in the world of SK:

1. PC adventurers are members of the 1%. The vast majority of sentient creatures in the world of SK, even those living in grand cities, will never have the opportunity to be raised from the dead. Children do not grow up with the expectation of escaping Achernar's grasp.
2. Being killed is hideously painful and traumatic. The fact that you might "recover" from it, does not make it less so.

People should never WILLINGLY walk into death, unless you are prepared to consider it the same sort of sacrifice IC as being tortured and mutilated (something a paladin might do). To do otherwise is to be guilty of not understanding how your character would think and therefore roleplaying inappropriately.

This has been a problem since I started playing, and unfortunately death is meaningless from an OOC motivation. I would suggest that you rethink the mechanics behind death and dying and what exactly entails dying and recovery. I know you say NPCs don't have the benefit of being resurrected in game like PC's do, but many do, you kill Akara and she respawns.

You would have to hardcode something in order to make death a challenge and something one wants to avoid at all costs.

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

Easy, your loot decays instantly when you die.

Boom.

woahboy · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm **Posts:** 503

PK spirit disorientation. If you die within 10 minutes of combat involving another PC, you get -5 to all stats for the next 5 hours of play time. If you die again in that time, the timer gets 5 more hours added and starts over.

Inera · **Joined:** Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:47 pm **Posts:** 103

With the changes to stun, you shouldn't have to kill your opponent in most cases. There should be an increase on penalties both for dying and for killing. Making stun a more viable option I think could aid in some of this.

patrisaurus · **Posted:** Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:06 pm

Could we possibly be overreacting? I've seen a few solid squads roll through the mud in my time, been on the giving and receiving end, and while these Harlequin deserve some props for having their day it doesn't strike me as particularly different than other times. The imms do an all right job of subjectively policing defeat; while in general I think the player base could get better at both winning & losing, I don't think coding is the answer.

Instead, continuing to expand disclosures/help file with respect to generally expected behavior -- sort of like the IC/OOC guidance that went up recently -- strikes me as a better answer.

patrisaurus · **Posted:** Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:09 pm

woahboy wrote:

This applies to the killers as well, though, doesn't it? Shouldn't "I killed Jim" be more significant than "I got to take all Jim's stuff"? Shouldn't grey aura characters be punished for running around playing serial killer?

Strongly agree with this sentiment

amandagreathouse · **Joined:** Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:34 am **Posts:** 166

patrisaurus wrote:

woahboy wrote:

This applies to the killers as well, though, doesn't it? Shouldn't "I killed Jim" be more significant than "I got to take all Jim's stuff"? Shouldn't grey aura characters be punished for running around playing serial killer?

Strongly agree with this sentiment

Do people actually run around doing this? I mean... killing, yes, they clearly do. But roleplaying a serial killer? A serial killer is a very specific animal, and frankly, I don't think necessarily evil, where on the other hand, a mass murderer or someone committing genocide might be. Why do I say this? I'm only a couple credits from my degree in psychology, and serial killers are often spawned as a result of childhood trauma, leaving them with a compulsion to act out a certain series of events surrounding a murder, or progressively murder a very specific phenotype of people (think: young blond men with blue eyes), as opposed to, say, racial violence (elf vs deep elf), a greed motivation, a passion motivation, or other types of killings.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Trosis wrote:

Here is my solution if it were to be coded into the game.

I think there should be some sort of 'victory' or 'defeat' requirements that are built into the game. There could be a couple of requirements that have to be fulfilled before a group is actually considered to be 'defeated.' Keep a coded count of how many times an 'enemy formation' has got the killing blow on a PC of a faction they are at war with. Keep a count of how many lawmobs have been killed by an enemy formation. Keep a timer on how long a relic has been held. These sorts of things could probably be easily implemented and would give undenyable proof that an enemy faction has been defeated. Increment the requirements based on how long the war has been going on (20 kills per month and 50 NPCs per month). or something like that.

Not sure I agree. If only because every time I do add something like this at the request of some players, I get a huge negative reaction from others who wanted to keep it fluid and allow RP and not to put everyone in a straightjacket and make them play the same, why am I dictating how they should play their character or run their group, that I ruined the originality of the experience, blah blah ad-naseum objections.

Not that I necessarily agree with that perspective either. I'm just saying that I and the staff are screwed either way.

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Factions and 'Defeat'

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