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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:34 pm 
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cheesekk wrote:
Meissa wrote:
When faced with such vitriol, name calling, and pretty much abject hatred for doing something we do out of love for the game during our spare time rather than for a paycheck at a 9-to-5, can you really be surprised that the heat in that thread got turned up? If that's the way the playerbase treats the staff, I can only envision a mass exodus as people get worn down quickly. We've seen it before. Even still, though, the thread represents a very vocal minority of the overall player base.


Just read a few more threads and I have to say:

I'm sorry that there are players out there that won't treat IMM staff with respect. It's one thing to voice constructive criticism, quite another to make wild accusations and call anyone who agrees with the staff a brown-noser (in less polite terms). I'll keep thinking about SK... just want to make sure I know what I'm getting into.


This is where the ability to separate the message from the messenger is crucial. I have nothing against syn, and although he has some very valid points about the game, I definitely wouldn't try to reason with him while he is in one of his moods.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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The problem with communicating via text is that there are no verbal or visual clues to the writers state of mind. Therefore most people fill in those details based on their own state of mind. If you are writing from an angry mindset, or reading posts written by people who are clearly angry, then even the most dispassionate response from those in authority can appear to be also angry or offensive. Please try to keep these facts in mind as you read old threads.

In the aforementioned threads about the newbie zone, I thought that the staff did, for the most part, if not quite perfectly, behave quite professionally considering the provocations. And the provocations really were from a vocal minority, with a single player creating as much as 50% of the angry negative feedback. (And when you are being cursed at in every post with the censor filters being constantly triggered, there is no question about tone.)

Everyone is quite concerned about the health of the game. And there is no doubt that a change such as the newbie zone is drastic. We could have objectively made an area that was twice as good as any of the old zones and there still would have been complaints. That we had initial problems with the zone and its launch only exacerbated that.

The difference that some people may not want to acknowledge is that SK will not remain viable forever by only catering to existing players. Some vocal veterans will say that it is useless to try to get new players and we should just cater exclusively to the existing player base desires. But that is simply not sufficient. If we are not successful in bringing in new blood, then there is not a persistant future for the game.

So while we are definitely not trying to drive people away, I will state up front (as I am on record of always saying) that changes can be made at any time, that some may be revolutionary, and will unavoidably impinge on the comfort zone of some veterans. Change is a constant, and if there is anything that I will accept being guilty of on behalf of the staff, it is that the game has been too stale over the last few years. It's time to shake things up again.

There are a lot of things being done right now, both on stage and behind the curtain. And some of them will actually be universally liked, so try not to get discouraged.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:36 pm 
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Thanks for chiming in, Dulrik.

My guess is that you may be likely to draw in new MUD players, but that MUDs as a whole aren't interesting to people who didn't grow up with them. In other words, the total MUD-playing populace is limited/decreasing far faster than it is growing, across the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:33 pm 
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All I think I should contribute to this thread and its discussions is an observation of "I told you so."


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:52 pm 
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I decided to go ahead and try a new character anyway. I guess getting some staff responses to my thread (and reading certain other players being exceedingly rude to staff) changed my perspective a bit. Pros and cons of the new academy as a returning/new player:

Pros:
-No problem with NPC difficulty, gold drops, or NPC numbers. At one point I think there were 4-5 players in there. Do the "Face your fears" rooms provide unlimited NPCs? If so, that's pretty nifty.
-Seer on the way out gave both home kingdom leveling and race specific tips. Very nice.
-Easy transport to the Inns is pretty handy. But why the tree if it's going away? I guess I have no idea what the deal is with that place.
-Interesting library books... are these available in other places?
-Free equipment is good. Quest reward was nice (though perhaps bugged because I got two).

Cons:
-Fairly boring area overall.
-Couldn't even touch the "boss" NPCs, but I suppose it might be my combo. Or maybe they require teamwork?
-Lack of quests compared to other academies. I actually used to travel to most/all of them just because I liked doing the newbie quests. This one has... only one that I could tell? I think the old quests (errand/shopping/etc style quests) taught more basic MUD skills and got newbies going on some exploration.

Oh, one suggestion: If you level up to L6, you should be kicked out to the Seer, not to the portal stone. Otherwise a true newbie might not know she is there and miss her advice, item, and transportation options.

It's really not a bad design other than being a bit bland (RP issues notwithstanding).


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:35 am 
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Thanks for the feedback. We'll keep working to make it less boring while trying to keep it easy for a newbie to understand. Some additional quests are probably in order.

With regard to your second to last comment, I know the issue about being kicked out was considered. All of the trainers except the seer are only supposed to train you to level 5. So unless there is a bug, she is the only one in the zone that is capable of triggering the ejection via training.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:18 am 
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I still don't ICly or OOCly know why Ayamao isn't a starting kingdom. Staff doesn't seem to, either. The clearest answer I've gotten on the subject, from Dulrik himself IIRC, is "well deep-elves can't start in ch'zzrym". Which doesn't really explain anything.

Still Guardians, still land flagged as Ayamao. Help files still state Ayamao is home to the centaur village, sprites, elves.


Last edited by Syn on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:28 am 
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Dulrik wrote:
With regard to your second to last comment, I know the issue about being kicked out was considered. All of the trainers except the seer are only supposed to train you to level 5. So unless there is a bug, she is the only one in the zone that is capable of triggering the ejection via training.


There must be a bug then -- the healer (Stella) in the center of the hallways definitely trains past level 5. You get a message like, "You are no longer a newbie -- you don't belong here!" and then suddenly appear at the portal stones. Besides myself, it also happened to another newbie who was then confused and didn't know where to go next.

Side note, feel free to move this thread to GD if that's a better place for it. I guess it's not exactly "Newbie Help."


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:41 am 
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SK Character: Arkex, Chronis, Azoreth, Kyln
Syn wrote:
I still don't ICly or OOCly know why Ayamao isn't a starting kingdom. Staff doesn't seem to, either. The clearest answer I've gotten on the subject, from Dulrik himself IIRC, is "well deep-elves can't start in ch'zzrym". Which doesn't really explain anything.

Still Guardians, still land flagged as Ayamao. Help files still state Ayamao is home to the centaur village, sprites, elves.


I think I read somewhere that it's still possible to immigrate there. The guardians have to, right? So what happens if all guardians were to retire? Would imms still assist in immigration and induction? Or would the guardians die off?
(Don't need answers. Just a thought on the matter.)


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to come back -- disappointed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:22 am 
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Trosis wrote:
Syn wrote:
I still don't ICly or OOCly know why Ayamao isn't a starting kingdom. Staff doesn't seem to, either. The clearest answer I've gotten on the subject, from Dulrik himself IIRC, is "well deep-elves can't start in ch'zzrym". Which doesn't really explain anything.

Still Guardians, still land flagged as Ayamao. Help files still state Ayamao is home to the centaur village, sprites, elves.


I think I read somewhere that it's still possible to immigrate there. The guardians have to, right? So what happens if all guardians were to retire? Would imms still assist in immigration and induction? Or would the guardians die off?
(Don't need answers. Just a thought on the matter.)


If the goal of the staff is consolidation, the Guardians are likely to be the next casualty. If geography is the criteria in consolidating, it would follow that the northern wastes and the Hand would be next on the chopping block. That would also seem a likely follow-up step if the Guardians were no longer an option in order to maintain a balance among the factions in the game.


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