Saves vs art

Gann · **Joined:** Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:43 am **Posts:** 107

Opey wrote:

Dulrik wrote:

ObjectivistActivist wrote:

There is no amount of saves that will guarantee you negate/reduce a spell's effect. You could have 100 fort, and still get taken to school on the first try by a bad result on the RNG.

This. The sorcerer got lucky and you got unlucky. The odds were that the pet attempt would fail and he would have wasted his time with nothing to show for it but weakening your next fort save.

You don't really get it. This wasn't a situation where the caster got lucky and happened to land the spell when he only had 10% chance to succeed. This is a systemic problem. One cannot get enough saves to protect themselves from spellcasters using one shot win spells. It can't be done without MR.

It's never a bad idea to ask Dulrik to check under the hood (so to speak) to make sure things are working correctly, but there's no need to resort to hyperbole. :wink:

The following is a snippet from a log Qulrokil posted, showing it is quite possible to resist petrification even with impairment:

Code:

[HP:100] [ME: 97] [PE: 91] (neutral ) 
9pm 
>
You utter the words, 'szculayuqann'.
A cinereous male centaur resists your petrification attack.
You are no longer invisible.

[HP:100] [ME: 85] [PE: 91] (neutral ) 
9pm 
>
You utter the words, 'szculayuqann'.
A brute male centaur resists your petrification attack.

[HP:100] [ME: 74] [PE: 91] (neutral ) 
9pm 
>
You utter the words, 'szculayuqann'.
A cinereous male centaur resists your petrification attack.

[HP:100] [ME: 62] [PE: 91] (neutral ) 
10pm 
>
You utter the words, 'szculayuqann'.
A cinereous male centaur resists your petrification attack.

[HP:100] [ME: 51] [PE: 91] (neutral ) 
10pm 
>c charm brute

You utter the words, 'szculayuqann'.
A cinereous male centaur resists your petrification attack.

[HP: 92] [ME: 43] [PE:100] (neutral ) 
10pm 
>
You utter the words, 'qpabraw dudasabru'.
A brute male centaur wakes up, and clambers to his feet.

[HP: 78] [ME: 40] [PE:100] (neutral ) 
10pm 
>
You utter the words, 'szculayuqann'.
Your petrification spell turns a cinereous male centaur to stone!
A black-haired male human jumps clear as a cinereous male centaur collapses.
A cinereous male centaur is DEAD!!

jreid_1985 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:44 pm

According to the help files, there are a few races that have innate willpower bonuses.

Are there any races that actually have fort bonuses?

Qulrokil · **Joined:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:14 pm **Posts:** 94

Anecdotally, centaurs and dwarfs are hard to petrify. I don't buy that it's particularly constitution based because giants are easy/normal to petrify.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:38 am

Opey wrote:

Dulrik wrote:

ObjectivistActivist wrote:

There is no amount of saves that will guarantee you negate/reduce a spell's effect. You could have 100 fort, and still get taken to school on the first try by a bad result on the RNG.

This. The sorcerer got lucky and you got unlucky. The odds were that the pet attempt would fail and he would have wasted his time with nothing to show for it but weakening your next fort save.

You don't really get it. This wasn't a situation where the caster got lucky and happened to land the spell when he only had 10% chance to succeed. This is a systemic problem. One cannot get enough saves to protect themselves from spellcasters using one shot win spells. It can't be done without MR.

I do get it. It is impossible to be 100% protected from failing saves. It has ALWAYS been impossible to be 100% protected. Or to put it the other way, it's systematically designed to make it possible for spells like petrification to have a (small) chance for success even if you have +100 Fort.

Trosis · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:42 am

You should have a small chance to land a petrify with 100 fort. But as it stands currently, it's tough to get the armor that will give you better odds.
Everyone is gettin one shotted left and right.

Removing will/fort stacking restrictions are still my suggestion to balancing them out a bit.

Qulrokil · **Joined:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:14 pm **Posts:** 94

That would make it absurdly easy to get a near perfect set. It's not a good solution. Lowering max possible art MIGHT be a better solution. The fact stands that it's super easy to get 20 fort before bless without hardly any effort and without any greater stat mods, and there's tons of gear with greater stat mods or multiple moderate mods out there that I locate every day to that's available to help do better.

Qulrokil · **Joined:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:14 pm **Posts:** 94

Alternatively, delete your priest and play an mr barb.

Cordance · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:13 pm

Trosis wrote:

You should have a small chance to land a petrify with 100 fort. But as it stands currently, it's tough to get the armor that will give you better odds.
Everyone is gettin one shotted left and right.

Removing will/fort stacking restrictions are still my suggestion to balancing them out a bit.

The problem of design when you look at the suggestion is that it devalues the hard to get gear. Innate enchantments have a significant value to them under the current system more even than the old system. If you change to where you can stack non innate enchantments it devalues them a significant amount although not back to where they where.

Terrus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:36 am

I think we should discuss the best armor in the game and what it takes to get it in relation to the current player base. Is it feasible for this player base to go on long and dangerous extended trips to outfit one person with god like armor?

Qulrokil · **Joined:** Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:14 pm **Posts:** 94

Terrus wrote:

I think we should discuss the best armor in the game and what it takes to get it in relation to the current player base. Is it feasible for this player base to go on long and dangerous extended trips to outfit one person with god like armor?

Totally agreed. I think there should be at least two or three more Karnak level difficulty bosses out there in the Wastelands or on the islands with Karnak level rewards - some of which should include, gasp, greater innate fort/will mods as opposed to the moderate ap, mp, me, hp/moderate fort, will that seem popular.

And by totally agreed, I meant to respond to your question by saying no, it's not at all feasible.

Shattered Kingdoms

Saves vs art

Who is online