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 Post subject: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:39 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 9:16 am
Posts: 1567
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As many of you know, there was an admin-organized large-scale RPK event involving a war between the Ayamao and the Empire to determine the territorial fate of Grahme Village.

This was an experimental event that I used to test some ideas for large-scale group RP/PK and to play with some theories for supporting group v group conflict and for using PvP "war" scenario for re-drawing some territorial borders.

Because this was experimental, I kept the scope limited and set specific parameters for scoring. I'm opening this forum to share with everybody the original parameters for that war, the weekly forum updates I posted after each weekly event, and some of the constructive feedback share by players in a limited forum that was set up immediately after the event concluded. There were some players who wanted the opportunity to give their feedback about the event as they experienced it from the "outside", so this is a chance now to do that. Suggestions, ideas, questions, etc are welcomed. All feedback will be read and considered for possible future events with similar scope.


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:40 am 
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We have a planned Tribunal War event coming up.

Event start date is: Saturday, February 28th from 5pm-6pm server time. That is 6pm MST, 7pm CST, 8pm EST.

Empire vs. Guardians
- 4 weeks in duration
- 4 scoring categories
- 5 points per category per week possible

4 Scoring Categories
1- PvP
2- Economic
3- Diplomatic
4- Additional Option

1- Weekly Organized PvP in Grahme (marks start/end)
- Begins with Ayamao in possession of Grahme
- Grahme spawns Ayamaoan Enforcers
- Grahme will be populated with guards from Shinlaken
- Whoever holds Grahme at the end of an hour wins 5 points
- I propose this hour be sometime on Saturday

2- Economic Power (measured at weekly PvP 2-5)
- Whoever has higher Tribunal Account balance at end of week wins the 5 points.
- If both tribunal acocunts are maxed out, the 5 points is split, 2.5 each.

3- Diplomatic Power (measured at weekly PvP 1-5)
- +1 point per tribunal ally (yes, MC alliance counts)
- -1 point per tribunal war
- 5 points max each per week

4- Additional Challenge (measured at weekly PvP 2-5)
- Guardians gank the MC Guardian option
- Empire ganks the Sith'a'niel Judge + King Felgaros
- 5 points/week each for success


Winning:
Overall winner of ALL points tallied for all 4 categories for all 4 weeks of the competition determines the final territory flags for Grahme itself.

If Ayamao wins overall score, territory flags remain unchanged. Empire can still win Additional Challenge.

If Empire wins overall score, Grahme will be flagged independent, with an Imperial garrison/envoy of some sort, and a portal to Shinlaken. [Clarification1: It won't be a straight up "portal", but something to do with their trade relations.]
Also:
1- Winner of the PvP challenge determines Indigo Valley
(draw goes to Empire)
2- Winner of the Economic challenge determines fields east of Grahme, to the mountains. (draw goes to Ayamao)
3- Winner of the Diplomatic challenge determines fields south of Grahme, to the mountains. (draw goes to Ayamao)

Additional Challenge
- Tie goes to Empire, unless Midnight is without Relic, in which case it goes to Ayamao.
- Winner of this challenge determines if Ayamao keeps control of the mountains, or if the Orcs rise up and claim them, likely to offer the Empire some kind of garrison in the mountains. [Clarification1: Ayamao controls the mountains north of the Ayamao, where the Outpost is. Legend 2 shows the exact borders.]


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:40 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 9:16 am
Posts: 1567
SK Character: NA - Inactive
Hostilities broke out on the battlefield today as the war for Grahme’s Independence officially broke out! First blood was drawn when Allniska was killed by the Imperial Legions as they marched from Arne to the Village of Grahme. Imperial force occupied Grahme and announced their intention to support, by all means available, to support the independence of Grahme Village and the expulsion of troops serving the Ayamaoan Alliance. The Knight Marshal of the Guardians rallied her forces and allies, and invaded Grahme to disperse the occupying Imperial forces. The Knightlord of the Empire led his Legions to a crushing defeat of the Guardians’ armies. Soon after, the Empire’s Zhensh and Northern allies joined with the Imperials and they marched on Sith’a’niel. The Imperial Alliance marched upon the courthouse and killed the elven judge and her hunting party. The Alliance did not march against King Felgaros of Sith’a’niel, but returned to hold their ground in Grahme. At the battle’s end, the Empire held the territory of Grahme, and many centaurs of Grahme cheered their Imperial allies and celebrated the success.
PK Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5

Tribunal Diplomacy:
The Guardians moved early to build diplomatic support, but were quickly outmaneuvered when the Imperial Legions engaged their diplomatic blitzkrieg, and in a shocking turn of events, the Imperial Legions signed a midnight-hour alliance with the Fists of the White Swan, sending ripples of discord across the western lands.
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 3

Tribunal Economics:
The Imperial Legions are beating the Guardians in Economic warfare.
Legion accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian, 2 platinum, 1 gold, 5 silver, 7 copper coins.
Guardian accounts have a balance of 95 obsidian, 2 platinum, 1 gold, 9 silver, 7 copper coins.
Economic Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5

Raider Update:
The Midnight Guardian remains intact, and empowered by holding the Hammer relic.
The Guardians of the Ayamao need to raid Losache Keep and defeat the Midnight Guardian to get the Raider bonus next Saturday. If the MC Guardian is missing their relic at the time of scoring, the Guardians will earn 1 extra bonus point.
The Imperial forces led a successful raid against the Courthouse and murdered the judge of Sith’a’niel.
The Imperial forces need to also raid and defeat the King of Sith’a’niel this week to get the Raider bonus next Saturday.
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 0

Overall Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 13


Next Up:
------------> Week #1 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 7 : PvP event #2 : We get second scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 1st "raid" scores tallied
------------> Week #2 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 14 : PvP event #3 : We get third scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 2nd "raid" scores tallied
------------> Week #3 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 21 : PvP event #4 : We get fourth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 3rd "raid" scores tallied
------------> Week #4 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 28 : PvP event #5 wraps it all up : We get fifth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 4th "raid" scores tallied : All scores tallied, Winners declared!


Complete:
Sat, Feb 28 : PvP event #1 kicks it all off : We get first scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:41 am 
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Hostilities continued in the war for Grahme’s Independence. The battle was slow to begin as the Empire girded itself for war, preparing in their Keep. The Guardians and their assembled allies came upon the Keep, seeking to draw out their enemies. While the Guardians stood watch outside Losache, the Legions slipped away and approached Grahme under the cover of darkness. The legions set up a defensive position. Within hours, the Guardians and their allies turned their attention back to Grahme and travelled to the village, coming upon the Imperial forces who were waiting under an unnatural darkness. The invading forces of the light broke upon the Midnight Shields of the Empire, and their forces were scattered, with some of their number cut down by Imperial Pikes. The Light withdrew from Grahme, regathered their strength, and in the final hours leading to the end of the battle, the Knight Marshal brought her armies in a second wave, crashing into the Imperial Phalanx. This time, the Allies broke through the Legion’s wall of shields and split their ranks. Imperial forces were killed, or scattered, giving the Alliance a midnight-hour victory, grabbing certain victory from the hands of their Imperial enemies. Ayamaoan loyalists rejoiced in the Alliance’s successful rally.
PK Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 0 (this week)
PK Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 5 (overall)

Tribunal Diplomacy:
The Imperial Diplomatic machine remained unshakeable on paper, as their formal alliances held strong, dominating the Guardians’ diplomatic efforts. The Imperial Legions claim their diplomatic victory, though some were left questioning the reliability of their absent allies, and particularly their allies in the Fist monastery, whose monks were accused of helping to secure the Guardians’ military victory.
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: -2 / Legions: 3 (this week)
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: -2 / Legions: 6 (overall)

Economic Diplomacy:
The Guardians managed to reverse the trend of Economic warfare, securing a victory to be neck-and-neck in the Economic struggle between the two great nations.
Guardian accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian, 8 gold, 7 silver, 8 copper coins.
Legions accounts have a balance of 99 obsidian, 6 platinum, 7 gold, 8 silver, 6 copper coins.
Economic Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 0 (this week)
Economic Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 5 (overall)

Raider Update:
The Midnight Guardian was deposed by the Knight Marshal of the Guardians and her allies. However, the Guardian remains intact, and empowered by its relic.
The Judge of Ayamao was twice slain by the Imperial Legions, who also managed to storm the Palace of Sith’a’niel, striking down the King Felgaros.
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 5 (this week)

Overall Score: Guardians: 13 / Legions: 8 (this week)
Overall Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 13 (last week) +
Overall Score: Guardians: 13 / Legions: 21 (TOTAL)


Next Up:
------------> Week #2 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 14 : PvP event #3 : We get third scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 2nd “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #3 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 21 : PvP event #4 : We get fourth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 3rd “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #4 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 28 : PvP event #5 wraps it all up : We get fifth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 4th “raid” scores tallied : All scores tallied, Winners declared!

Complete:
Sat, Feb 28 : PvP event #1 kicks it all off : We get first scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy
------------> Week #1 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 7 : PvP event #2 : We get second scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 1st “raid” scores tallied


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:42 am 
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Hostilities in the War of Grahme's Independence continued recently when Imperial Legions infiltrated Grahme's borders under cover of an unnatural darkness. Imperial forces established a secure zone and held their position until the Allied Guardian forces came forth to defend Ayamao’s territorial integrity. A great battle ensued between both great armies. Steel clashed against steel and a great clamor rang out. Mages hurled powerful bolts of magic, magma was hurled, priests called forth prayers, and a tremendous battle ensued. The Allied forces withdrew, recovered from the deadly effects of magical magma, and both armies regrouped, then engaged again in the streets of Grahme, running them red with blood. This time, when the blood and smoke cleared, a single sandy-haired female human stood over a pile of fallen corpses. Having traveled with the Ayamaoan Allies, it looked as though the Imperial tide was turned back, but then the Legate returned with a great soldier and reclaimed the battlefield. The Imperials recovered, holding their ground, and the Guardians regrouped before engaging one final charge. Their rally, though inspired, broke on the shields and pikes of the Imperial phalanx, and at the end of the battle, the Empire was victorious. The secessionists of Grahme cheered the victory and cried out praises for their Imperial allies.
PK Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5 (this week)
PK Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 10 (overall)

Tribunal Diplomacy:
The Imperial Diplomatic machine continued to prove its dominance. The Empire’s alliances survived the challenges of the last battle, and indeed have just grown stronger. The Imperial Legions claim their diplomatic victory, rallying the international community to cry out support for Grahme’s aspirations for independence.
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: -2 / Legions: 4 (this week)
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: -4 / Legions: 10 (overall)

Economic Diplomacy:
The Guardians managed to hold onto their economic lead, as the Ayamao’s economy continued to charge like a bull, barely out-performing the Empire in measurable areas.
Guardian accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian, 6 gold, 7 silver coins.
Legion accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian.
Economic Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 0 (this week)
Economic Score: Guardians: 10 / Legions: 5 (overall)

Raider Update:
The Judge and the King Felgaros of Ayamao was slain by the Imperial Legions, who added insult to injury when their necromancer ally animated the king’s fallen corpse, turning him into an undeath wraith.
The Midnight Guardian remains intact, empowered by its relic, as the Imperial Keep repulsed the Guardians’ attempted siege.
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5 (this week)
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 10 (overall)

Overall Score: Guardians: 3 / Legions: 14 (this week)
Overall Score: Guardians: 13 / Legions: 21 (last week) +
Overall Score: Guardians: 16 / Legions: 35 (TOTAL)


Next Up:
------------> Week #3 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 21 : PvP event #4 : We get fourth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 3rd “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #4 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 28 : PvP event #5 wraps it all up : We get fifth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 4th “raid” scores tallied : All scores tallied, Winners declared!

Complete:
Sat, Feb 28 : PvP event #1 kicks it all off : We get first scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy
------------> Week #1 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 7 : PvP event #2 : We get second scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 1st “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #2 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 14 : PvP event #3 : We get third scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 2nd “raid” scores tallied


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:43 am 
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The War for Grahme’s Independence saw another great clash between the Empire and the Guardians of the Ayamao. The Knightlord marched his troops into the Village of Grahme, cutting down Ayamaoan loyalists and using the support of legionnaires from Shinlaken, planted in the Village to support the Imperial war effort. The Knightlord and his troops moved to the heart of the village, and stood guard in the traditional post of the Captain of Grahme. Warded by a cloak of antimagic in their tactical position, when the Ayamaoans approached, a ranged battle sprung up between Imperial and the Allied forces of the Guardians. The Imperial tactics proved effective, surprising the Allied army with the antimagic damper, and after a great battle between the two armies, the Allied line was broken. The Guardians and their brave allies were scattered, some falling in noble combat, others retreating to safety. The Guardians reassembled and returned. They took position north of where the Imperials had set their phalanx. A ranged melee broke out between both forces, and a stalemate held between them. As the battle’s end drew near, the Chieftain called forth that the army to hold the Chieftain’s hut would be recognized as the champion. The Imperials moved into position, and defeated a regiment of loyalists who had taken a defensive posture there. The Imperials held their position, and were recognized as champions of the day.
PK Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5 (this week)
PK Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 15 (overall)

Tribunal Diplomacy:
The Imperial Diplomatic machine continued its march of victory. The Empire has swayed much of the international community to support their support of the freedom fighters in Grahme. Although the Guardians improved their diplomatic standing, they were able to make little progress for their cause.
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 3 (this week)
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: -4 / Legions: 13 (overall)

Economic Diplomacy:
The economy in the Empire of the Bright Star held strong, while that of the Ayamao slowed just barely under the constraints of war. No clear winner could be determined.
Guardian accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian coins.
Legion accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian coins.
Economic Score: Guardians: 2.5 / Legions: 2.5 (this week)
Economic Score: Guardians: 12.5 / Legions: 7.5 (overall)

Raider Update:
The Judge and the King Felgaros of Ayamao were slain by the Imperial Legions.
The Midnight Guardian remains intact, empowered by its relic.
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5 (this week)
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 15 (overall)

Overall Score: Guardians: 2.5 / Legions: 15.5 (this week)
Overall Score: Guardians: 16 / Legions: 35 (last week) +
Overall Score: Guardians: 18.5 / Legions: 50.5 (TOTAL)


Next Up:
------------> Week #4 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 28 : PvP event #5 wraps it all up : We get fifth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 4th “raid” scores tallied : All scores tallied, Winners declared!

Complete:
Sat, Feb 28 : PvP event #1 kicks it all off : We get first scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy
------------> Week #1 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 7 : PvP event #2 : We get second scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 1st “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #2 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 14 : PvP event #3 : We get third scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 2nd “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #3 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 21 : PvP event #4 : We get fourth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 3rd “raid” scores tallied


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:44 am 
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The War for Grahme’s Independence drew to a close after another great clash between the armies of east and west. The Guardians moved early to establish a hold on Grahme, and set up a defense holding position. After a time, the Imperials approached and were forced to pause, as their path to victory was blocked by a field of anti-magic. The Imperial armies recalculated and devised their tactics as a ranged skirmish arose between them and their great opponents. Before long, the great Imperial phalanx marched forth, and a great clamor arose as the armies crashed together. A furious battle arose between both forces as mithril and adamantite rang out singing the song of this great final battle. When the smoke cleared, even the Chieftain himself had been cut down in the confusion, killed by the very Imperial forces assembled to defend his village. The Imperials stood victorious over their fallen enemies. Upon his return to life, the great Chief Keldinor of Grahme slipped away and met with the King Felgaros of Sith’a’niel. Together, in secret, they forged a peace between them, over troubled hours, before returning to the Meeting Hall of Grahme, with their loyal friends and allies assembled, and announced the Peace, the end of the War for Grahme’s Independence.
The King announced his recognition of the sovereign independence of the Village of Grahme.
The King announced his recognition of the sacred Indigo’s Valley historic ties to the great centaurs of Grahme, and its independence tied to the independence of Grahme.
The King announced his recognition of the sovereign running fields of the great centaurs of Grahme, extending south from their village, along Anduras River.
The Chieftain of Grahme renounced his claims on the running fields east of Grahme, recognizing them as territory of the Ayamaoan Alliance in perpetuity.

PK Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 5 (this week)
PK Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 20 (overall)

Tribunal Diplomacy:
The Imperial Diplomatic continued to march on, to victory. Their rally of the international community has led to the political recognition of Grahme’s sovereignty and full independence from the Alliance.
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: 0 / Legions: 3 (this week)
Diplomacy Score: Guardians: -4 / Legions: 16 (overall)

Economic Diplomacy:
The economy in the Empire of the Bright Star suffered from heavy losses in the final year of the War. The costs of war were brought to the East as the Guardians and their allied forces struck at Imperial territory, exacting a heavy economic toll from Imperial coffers. The Guardians remained strong, and this steadfast economy helped to secure the loyalty of the lands east of Ayamao.
Guardian accounts have a balance of 100 obsidian coins.
Legion accounts have a balance of 27 obsidian, 2 platinum, 2 gold, 4 silver, 2 copper coins.
Economic Score: Guardians: 5 / Legions: 0 (this week)
Economic Score: Guardians 17.5 / Legions: 7.5 (overall)

Raider Update:
The Judge and the King Felgaros of Ayamao remained intact and safe from invasion.
The Midnight Guardian was destroyed by the Knight Marshal and the Ayamao's Allies, and its relic taken (+1 bonus score).
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 6 / Legions: 0 (this week)
Raider Bonus: Guardians: 11 / Legions: 15 (overall)

Overall Score: Guardians: 11 / Legions: 8 (this week)
Overall Score: Guardians: 18.5 / Legions: 50.5 (last week)
Overall Score: Guardians: 29.5 / Legions: 58.5 (overall)

The Secessionists of Grahme and the Empire of the Bright Star are named victors in the war!
The voices of Grahme have risen up and proclaimed their gratitude and friendship to the Empire of the Bright Star!



Next Up:
<done>

Complete:
Sat, Feb 28 : PvP event #1 kicks it all off : We get first scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy
------------> Week #1 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 7 : PvP event #2 : We get second scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 1st “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #2 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 14 : PvP event #3 : We get third scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 2nd “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #3 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 21 : PvP event #4 : We get fourth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 3rd “raid” scores tallied
------------> Week #4 in-between : Can get credit for ONE successful king+ judge or guardian raid
Sat, Mar 28 : PvP event #5 wraps it all up : We get fifth scores for PvP / Economy / Diplomacy ; 4th “raid” scores tallied : All scores tallied, Winners declared!


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:50 am 
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I made this suggestion in week 2 to consider a scoring adjustment, but we decided at the time to stick with the original scoring method to avoid confusion.

Recommendations for scoring adjustment:

Diplomacy Adjustment:
Legion gets the +1 for its alliance to the Empire. I support that.
Guardians face double-jeopardy in the -1 for War. I recommend MC/Legion bundle as -1 for war, not -2.

Economic Adjustment:
There are costs associated with waging a war and with being a battlefield.
Economy scoring should not be lump-sum like PvP, but scored more competitive like diplomacy.

If the balance spread is <1 obsidian, both sides win 3 points each.
If the balance spread is >=1 and <5 obsidian difference, the "winner" wins 2 points, the "loser" gets 1 point.
If the balance spread is >=5 and <10 obsidian difference, the "winner" gets 3 points.
If the balance spread is >=10 and <15 obsidian difference, the "winner" gets 4 points.
If the balance spread is >=15 obsidian difference, the "winner" gets 5 points.

I’m proposing these adjustments to both Legions and Guardian forums.


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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:52 am 
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Attached below are some of the ideas/feedback shared by participants that I found particularly valuable. I haven't attached any names, but the contributors offering these suggestions feel free to claim credit:

=================================================================

2 of the main issues I noticed was the wording of the economic portion. I'd like to figure out if there is a max amount that sales tax can add to the coffers. Technically, in week 3, was it? We both had the max amount, but their coffers had more than 100 black. I think it should have been a tie that week.
Second is the king of the hill vs casualty aspect of "holding Grahme." I think the rules of holding it could have been more clear. But I liked the "you now hold the hill" tells that went out in the last week.
-----
Economic: I've never been fond of farming coin or other factions NPCs. While this part makes perfect sense from an IC perspective, I didn't participate much because I don't care to do those things.
Diplomatic: I wasn't in a leader position so I didn't see much of this. The Alliance "on paper" thing I found amusing. Whereas there were a large number of Alliances, but little to no aid to be seen (even opposition sometimes) from said allied factions. I loved the set up of this challenge because it creates interactions between all factions. Rather than a straight forward murder-fest, it promotes communication and as the title covers, diplomacy.
Additional Challenge: Fun and difficult. For the MC an outer guardian is of little consequence, I've recently seen it taken out by 2 people without difficulty. Inner Guardians are easy with the right group, a nightmare without. The Guardian's warparty/King group were pretty tough. The King's especially with an Archmage actively trying to charm and confuse entire enemy formations. Add in having to deal with bounty NPCs, fairly even. Multiple enemy targets, each with a separate skillset, I personally think would be a harder fight for players than an Inner Guardian, however I've no data to back that hunch up.
PvP: This was the best part for me. Win or lose I had a blast. I've never been particularly good in pvp and it was nice to be a part of large group combat. It is unfortunate the no-junk/loot terms were swiftly disregarded based on a technicality, however looting has always been part of SKs pvp and it was likely to get thrown out the window eventually anyways. The main downside I saw to the pvp was that I (think) I witnessed less logons of some players for fear of getting ganked and losing all their things prior to the fight. While this makes sense strategically, it is unfortunate that players would avoid logging into the game in general.
Overall I enjoyed the event.
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I very much enjoyed this opportunity, I personally prefer the idea of a set goal to the normal PK cycles. Though as stated, the actual win conditions were not clearly known. My own assumptions proved to be slightly wrong.
The idea of room-claiming could be good as well, perhaps claimed rooms temporarily changing ownership to the holding kingdom, with guaranteed spawning of enforcers to fight off the invaders? Combined with the idea of shifting control points, where that room and adjacent rooms are the only places available to be claimed.
Allowing the first one there a chance to gain a defensive benefit. Scoring perhaps based off of player death count + control point duration held, with an added final king of the hill bonus.
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I would like to suggest a point scale for the Raider bonus with a few more objectives. Maybe three bonus objectives during the week where the score could be determined similar to the proposed economy score. If both teams manage to do all three then they both get three points. If one team does three and the other does zero than it could be all 5 points for the team that did the objectives. This would make it more difficult to balance the challenge but would possibly give more options for different group makeups.
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It was hard because as we gained momentum, the point disparity was hard to overcome. We couldn't get a raid off, so we were losing those points, diplomacy went stagnant so we were literally losing points every week, and then the no magic room happened and...
Mostly it was that we got stomped 2 weeks in a row on the points and there was no coming back.
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Would have been nice if the initial no junk/loot agreement had been kept, would have probably been a little more civil then.
But by the end of the first week, it seemed to turn into who could demoralize the other side most.
This is at least personally what I think led to the lack of Legion on during normal play hours, if we wanted to be geared for the upcoming fight in Grahme, we had to avoid the constant lighty attack squads, including double voodoos.
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In other news, I thought of a new bracket that might work for diplomacy: +1 point for each alliance, -1 point for each alliance broken. It would be a one time thing, not scored every week, so it ends up being overall a bit less important, but it doesn't feel so bad once those alliance stagnate, as they would be wont to do since who would sign an alliance that isn't for the whole terms of the war?
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Just a small point to add... I don't know about everyone else, but having the event every Saturday evening for five weeks was a bit of a strain for me. Doing every other Saturday for 6 weeks, or changing the Saturday event to a different day once or twice during the event might be useful to give the players some Saturdays off.
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 Post subject: Re: The War of Grahme's Independence
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:53 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 9:16 am
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One of the more in-depth responses warranting its own post:

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First of all, I want to say that I really enjoyed most of this event. Things I didn’t enjoy have more to do with normal frustrations of playing an emotional character and stressing myself out by proxy ... though my general feeling is that the points were too binary (either win or lose).
PVP
It’s been said before; it might have been nice to know what the win conditions here going in. Pure body count? Time spent in occupation? If you do this in the future, it might be cool to have a command you use in each room to ‘claim’ a spot, which would initiate some lag or maybe you just have to stay still to make it happen so that if the enemy finds you in the midst, he can do something about it. You could spend the same amount of time to turn a room back to ‘neutral’ and then claim it again to switch it from the enemy to your square, actually let lines be drawn. (I suppose you could start anywhere and build out from connected rooms). Having a secondary goal that can be obstructed by PK is a lot more engaging to me than ‘get in there and slug it out’. It would also allow you to spread the points out more, similar to the proposed change in economy scores that came out in week two(?), so even a full loss one week doesn’t make you feel like you have to climb out of a hole for the rest of the event.
Economic
I really liked having something I could work on when no one else was around, but once again this was a very binary option. I liked the changes suggested partway through the event, where you could get different points based on scale, but I’d suggest adding a few other points of measure throughout the week. Like if you could get 1 or 2 points (depending on lead) on both Monday and Thursday of the weeks, I think we’d get a lot more people logging on to make sure they can make the deposits/kill a few enemy NPCs on more days than Saturday and we’d get a fuller feeling conflict. (To keep five points, I would do up to 2 Monday/Thursday and one point for winning Saturday. 1 point for being on top, 2 points for being more than 5 obsidian on top, or something).
Diplomacy
This one already had a scale of points built in, and it was originally the source of a lot of my fun associated with this event. I sort of loved going around having these prewar meetings and councils. But it was really rough to get negative points, especially since on each turn it was the allies of my enemy declaring war on me, so each one meant a two point spread. I sincerely object to netting negative points because it’s disheartening, but I understand why it was the way it was.
A second problem with the diplomacy was that it felt like there was this rush of establishment and then everyone just hung out where they were. For example (and not trying to point fingers) Legion got points every week and we lost points every week from their Talon alliance and our war, but I didn’t see a single member of that faction participate in the war at all (and I may be missing something, too).
I would have preferred to see +1 point for each alliance that has a member show up at the PK event, rather than who had a favorable meeting. That at least gives you something to work for in week 3, it matters to contact the leaders of your allies and encourage them to actually be there for you in act rather than spirit. (Did any monk, ever, fight on the Legion’s side because of their Alliance?) I understand that sometimes people can contribute in other ways and maybe we can find some way for that support to be flagged too.
Raiding
The scales felt very uneven here. Maybe it was just who was around and us not being as confident/competent as the enemy, but every time I considered trying to raid we were shot down because we didn’t have the right group. I know you said that you tested the warparty against the guardian, but there’s the getting to the guardian to worry about as well and it seemed like even if we had the numbers to do so, they weren’t the RIGHT numbers. Shrug. I guess I’d suggest giving more points to people who raid while someone’s around to defend, but this seems like the kind of thing it’s hard not to leave up to offline attacks and recovery efforts, and I really don’t know what I’m doing there, so I’ll have to leave that kind of scoring up to someone else. I suppose it doesn’t matter if its tribunal vs tribunal or cabal vs cabal, just when there’s conflict in between one and the other.

Letting the mechanics go for a moment, I just want to say thanks Dabi for running this. I got the feeling before you confirmed that this was sort of a bone you were throwing to the Guardians. “Here’s your chance to make your home last a little longer” and the fact that it felt scaled against us makes sense to me on a sort of cosmic scale. I understand the general plan of the immortals is to reduce the number of starting and major areas, and I think it’s a good idea for a lot of various reasons, but I appreciate the chance to slow it down as much as we can. I don’t expect things to get better and it sucks a bit to have rolled up my first character in this country of change when I don’t hardly know anything coming in, but it also left me with a whirlwind of interest strong enough for me to take a (so far) month-long break from my home mud. I can’t speak for anyone else, but this worked for me. Great first effort, looking forward to the next.


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