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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:40 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:49 pm
Posts: 229
That idea in and of itself is a huge project. A good one, but a huge project. With the shortage of staff and players, do you think they really have the time to fix bugs, add/modify stuff, and deal with the regular routine things like religions and tribunals, and then have the time for something of this size?


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Implementor

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 8220
Location: Redwood City, California
It is a huge project. It really needs to be broken down into very small tasks that could be added separately over time. Some of those tasks are not very game compelling by themselves though. (Picture mining ore and then having nothing to do with it yet.)

But if you want to take a stab at defining those tasks (also divided into crafting paths), start a new thread. Ultimately I would have to organize it, but can't hurt to see details that people want in a crafting system...


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:05 pm 
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Immortal

Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 9:16 am
Posts: 1567
SK Character: NA - Inactive
TheX wrote:
Crafting, please make a crafting system. Let me go mine ore while I wait for people to come online and forge my own equipment.
Leathworking, scroll making, vial crafting, pill making, pet rearing. Give me something to do besides wait.


You're not alone in this. I'm a big fan of this too.

There is one location where you can try to mine rocks and gems, but I don't know how well my scripts there work, and you still can't do anything more useful than sell the ore. Yet. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
Posts: 3502
Location: Canada
SK Character: Karsh
Dulrik wrote:
It is a huge project. It really needs to be broken down into very small tasks that could be added separately over time. Some of those tasks are not very game compelling by themselves though. (Picture mining ore and then having nothing to do with it yet.)

But if you want to take a stab at defining those tasks (also divided into crafting paths), start a new thread. Ultimately I would have to organize it, but can't hurt to see details that people want in a crafting system...



Done


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:03 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:13 am
Posts: 1155
Location: Newton, MA
Hey folks, been a while.

Sadly, I probably don't have time to play for anyone that still remembers me. That said, I thought I'd super-belatedly chime in on what I think would help raise player numbers - especially with new folks. This may have been addressed in the last few years that I've been away, but in case it's not been...

Death. Death sucks, especially as a new, leveling character. SK is not a very friendly or forgiving place. I still have nightmares about Fytrysks in Morea wandering around the corner and killing me, preventing me from being able to retrieve my things by standing over my corpse for hours. This really sucks...always, but especially when player numbers are low.

Suggestions:
1. Make getting back to life easier if you die in PVE and are below say Master. I mean a lot easier, like auto-resurrection almost instantly without needing a priest or a death quest. Old players know all the riddles, new players might fail and then wait around for hours.
2. Make it easier to get your things back, or make it not as necessary. e.g Auto-provide resurrected characters with level-appropriate armor/weapons for their class or specializations.
3. Auto-provide characters with a gate to their corpse or the entrance to the area they died in (as long as it's not gate-blocked like Dreamscape or the Wastes.
4. If this still exists, get rid of spirit disorientation for PVE deaths. It's unnecessary and makes leveling a character/being a newbie even worse than it otherwise would be.

Will this make Priests less appealing to play? Yes, but I think that's a necessary sacrifice at this point and they can be given something else to make up for it if necessary. Maybe priest-resurrection also teleports your body to you.

Reasons for the change, in case the above appeal wasn't enough:
1. This is still my #1 hated thing after being gone from the game for 5-10 years, and always had been.
2. It will make the game a lot more newbie friendly. You can suck at the game, die...and not be super deterred by it to keep playing and leveling your character.
3. It shouldn't greatly impact PVP since this would only apply to PVE death. I realize there will be abuses, but I think that's worth it in the long run to get player count up.

Edit: Just remembered spirit disorientation, added that as my list of death changes for PVE.


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Gulf Breeze
I think he is right. It may change the fundamental consequences of death, but with gaming becoming more casual these days. Nobody, especially new players want to spend hours getting back to life.

Imagine getting back gear and getting it properly enchanted in preparation for pve/pk as a loading screen.
Nobody wants to sit around for 2-5 hours waiting just so they can go do fun stuff again. It's likely why nobody really wants to risk losing gear in pk in the first place and can be generally seen with these who lists comprised of non-affiliated players with no titles.


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:43 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:22 am
Posts: 78
Some simple changes could help make death a little less painful for new characters.

Allowing Breath of Life and Raise Dead for instance to not take experience when used on character below Master status.

Allowing a return option upon reaching the shores of death for those below Veteran.
(motes could offer up new lines 'if you seek a quick return to life young one, try the southern portal', a simple portal exit at the southern end)
Which would return you and your corpse to your home portal stone for a small xp penalty. (2 ticks about)
(at this level a small penalty is easy to recover from, and is the price paid for taking the quick route)

Spirit disorientation probably could be waived for deaths below Veteran as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:21 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:49 pm
Posts: 229
Quote:
A claw of a daemon is lying here.
This claws is a medium-sized wild fighting made of supernatural.

With embalming fluid, this should actually be a weapon :drunk:


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:22 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:03 pm
Posts: 64
First, hi to anyone who remembers me and if you just want the conclusion of all this, skip to the last 2 paragraphs. If you don't want to read my history, skip to the next paragraph now. Second, I'm not playing and haven't played in a long time but every once in a while something reminds me of SK and I'll check the website and forums, maybe create a character to check the who list and delete. I just love seeing who's still around that I might know and how active the game is. I started playing SK when the population was usually 40 people online at it's lowest points and as high as 130+, this was back in the late 90's. I had a miscreant rogue as my first character which I got burned out and quit because I had such a difficult time trying to get mithril weapons so I could level from Master to GM in the wastelands,let alone finding a group to take me out there that wouldn't die. I came back after 6 months or so and made a miscreant swashbuckler. The same thing happened to me again resulting in me deleting and leaving for many years. I got bored with whatever other games I was playing and one of my friends that originally brought me to SK had started playing it again and talked me into it. The population had dropped a little from what it was when I last played, but there were still 30-50 people with peaks pushing 100 to interact with. I rolled a Principled Priest(Tukahl) and reached Mentor status before I was finally able to catch up with the high follower of Dulrik's faith(which most players I was talking to at the time felt was completely ridiculous) and then GM status by simply perfecting my spells and healing other leveling groups. I joined The Hammer and eventually became the leader by default. I really didn't know jack about the MUD and I got pk'd and jlooted into the dirt and felt utterly hopeless. I completely stopped liking the game, it stressed me out to no end that I had made enemies I simply couldn't contend against that refused to show me mercy as I hadn't shown them any when I had the numbers on my side. I deleted and left the game for several years again. Inevitably, I was bit by the bug and returned, this time as a Miscreant Priest. The numbers declined even more and the same thing happened except I had joined the Adepts and my relic got taken so I lost all my abilities and was once again left feeling utterly hopeless, defeated and depressed so I deleted again. Then I returned a year later with a miscreant sorceror, joined the Harlequins and the same thing happened again where I once again ended up leading, my relic was taken, I lost all my powers, I made enemies with the wrong people and got pk'd into hopelessness. I haven't returned since and I'm not sure I ever will. I have always loved the mandatory RP environment on SK and that's what got me to come back so many times. I learned a little more about the game each time I played as well, but I'm still a big noob.

I couldn't agree more with Konrin about Death. Death is so unforgiving on SK. As a new player, it's so easy to die and with lower player numbers right now, I can only imagine how hard it must be for some players to return to life, let alone reclaim their belongings. I was never one to play more than one character at a time, so if I died, I'd rot in the afterlife and keep checking the game, hoping a priest would log on so I wouldn't get an xp penalty. I'd rather rot in the afterlife and lose my gear than suffer reincarnation penalties if I failed the death quest or had died too many times. Most of the time I died while leveling, it wouldn't be until veteran/expert/mentor/master status and I wouldn't be able to get my body back without help from a group or higher level player which was a problem even back then. Now I had to re-equip myself or get help with that before I could return to leveling. Easy if you're a knowledgeable veteran player but I found the whole process to be quite the endeavor most of the time and I'm sure the same goes for a lot of new/casual players.

Often times(definitely not all the time) while I was leveling my characters unless someone had to talk to me about joining a religion, I had a hard time just getting the attention of a Grandmaster level player. They had their own priorities and problems to deal with and until I became a viable ally or threat, most wouldn't pay me any attention unless they were bored. Now once I reached GM status, I'd want to explore the game but for fear of death and losing all of my gear that I may have spent a long time gathering, enchanting, brewing, scribing, etc -- I wouldn't do it. Not only did I not want to lose my equipment, I didn't want to lose experience points either. Sometimes I'd die and be stuck in the afterlife for a long, long time because I didn't want to have to level up again and no one was around that would resurrect my sad, sorry behind. Even if situations where a group would wipe in a difficult area with aggressive NPCs, we might all be stuck dead and unable to reclaim our gear before our corpses rotted even if we were returned to life. I fully understand this is part of the game and some of what makes it challenging.

It's so hard to balance a game for PvE and PvP, let alone casual players and "hardcore/veteran/elite" players. You need to have rewards in place for those players who have more time to invest into the game, yet if you make those rewards too powerful, a new player might be at a severe disadvantage. I don't know what the game is like right now but when I played, especially the melee classes, required so much preparation if your opponents were good. You could spend hours, days, weeks even maybe getting your character ready for one battle that if you lost, all that time you spent meant nothing. To try to kill your adversary, you had to do the same thing over again if you wanted a legit shot at it. When you're competing against elite, veteran caliber players who know the game inside and out and have invested so much of their time over the years into the game to get as good as they are it, death is brutal when they jloot you and there's nobody around to return you to life. You can log off, roll a new character or play an alt but at least for me, all my focus would go into my main character and it would always come to a grinding halt when I couldn't get a "rez".

When I first started playing in the late 90's, religion was a big deal. You weren't just welcomed in, you had to prove yourself worthy. It felt to me on par with what joining a cabal felt like the first time I did that. By the time I made Tukahl in 2003(going off my forum ID), it no longer was unless you were a priest, paladin or hellion. On my latter characters, I think all you had to do was express interest in the religion and the high followers had to invest you. If all you need to do currently is declare yourself a follower of a particular God/Goddess, perhaps all the NPC priests that sit around in temples could invest new players into these religions and grant them a symbol. When wearing a holy symbol upon your death perhaps it could be scripted to return you to life in a random temple/holy location of your God/Goddess. I think it should apply all the way up through Master Status. Once you reach Champion, no more free rez ride. Using religion, perhaps you could accumulate some sort of favor/points in doing quests for or making donations to these Priest NPCs so that when you die, you'd have a command that would resurrect you providing you had sufficient favor/points with your religion. Stuff would need to be added in the newbie zone about selecting a deity to follow and the benefits of doing so, then scripting the NPC priests to be able to educate a new player about the system. A "favor/religious point system" would need to be created and the quests and/or system to earn the religious favor/points. How long before you can resurrect if you die to an NPC/Death Trap vs if you get PK'd? A lot of details need to be ironed out and this will surely require a lot of work from Big D and his current building staff to implement but I think it could change the game in a really positive way given numbers being so low. Now I can't wait to hear if you all think I'm nuts or it's a good idea. I know I'd have tougher argument with myself not to give SK a go again were such a system in place.

As Avenel said, lift the xp penalty on breath of life and raise dead and have it work on characters up to Master status. Also perhaps shamans and priests could call upon the spirits and gods to summon a corpse of a player that's Master status or lower to their location. Perhaps the player that died could pray to the gods/spirits and with sufficient favor have his corpse returned up to Master status. You could let necromancers use animate dead on willing PCs, they would be considered undead and controlled by the necromancer like the charm spell and on the same timer as the corpse rot but at least a Necromancer might be able to get you to safety and preserve your equipment or keep you in the fight a while longer. Heal would now harm the player and all that stuff. Once the corpse rot timer is up, if you haven't been resurrected your body and everything on/in it decomposes and is lost. Just throwing stuff at the wall.. let me know if anything has the substance to actually stick?


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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorm: What change(s) would excite you to play?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:13 pm
Posts: 74
SK Character: Gemyna Milmyra
I've been an off-and-on player of SK since 1999, coming back frequently but never having an important character of any kind. It was just casual role-playing fun that replaced the days of my table-top gaming. On one hand, I've really enjoyed all the changes over the years, every time I come back there's something different about the world, etc. That's awesome! On the other hand, I completely agree with the other posters about death as your leveling up. Honestly, for me the game has always been about the leveling/schooling as once I made it to master or beyond, I usually didn't get involved much more... why? Because I know the veteran players know how to PK perfectly, where all the stuff is, what kind of buffs I should have, etc. etc. etc. Me on the other hand, I have NO clue what that should be and there is nothing in the game that tells/teaches me either. Now one of my favorite changes that you've added is that certain finishing school in a certain kingdom that teaches all the history, etc. THAT is way cool and an awesome way to bring newbies or returning oldies into understanding the world around them. There should be a LOT more of that... a school that you pay for that teaches more about PK and how to build/study to be a decent character; not a great one, but decent to hold your own at least. Players seem to treat leveling as if the character were still in school anyway, it would make sense to make it more of a schooling fashion, allowing more quest versus grinding, etc. I believe that would make it more interesting and easier to get wrapped up into the world and history of Pyrathia. These schools might even suggest/point you to the next area that would be a good fit for your class and alignment to continue your training.

A second thought of things that always made me very nervous about playing and exploring, especially with the issues about getting resurrected even during the good days of the game was simply not knowing where things were. Back then it was really easy to find someone who might take you to said place you'd never been before any even act as a bodyguard on your way there, especially when you've died by an imp on the road more than a dozen times that makes you really nervous about wandering about. Since the players are minimal, what about setting up "tour guide shops" where you can hire a tour guide to escort you/show you to certain key areas of leveling up. Obviously they're not going to take you just anywhere, but certain areas that are commonly known throughout the world to the citizens would make sense.

Finally, the portal stones have a set schedule where they connect from one to another. The citizens have known this for centuries so instead of pretending its some big secret, why not post the schedule in game somewhere. Something like a airport terminal posting or something. When there were lots of players, it was easy to learn these things. Now that I am actually playing days on end without having a single interaction with another player, not having anyone to even learn from makes it frustrating to keep going.

In the end, I'd love to actually learn how to play this game at the level of GM+, getting into the cabals/tribunals, etc. I agree about the religions, that a simple IC priest should be able to vest since it's become so easy to join/no need to prove anything. Perhaps script out an interactive RP for those priests and that would make them a lot more enticing to be a part of. Just some thoughts from an oldie/eternal newbie.


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