Shattered Kingdoms

Change to recall potions is one of the dumbest ideas I have heard come up with. Sk is still a world of gangbangs, you should find a way to adjust that before you try changing anything else.

This is a thread about bash and reflex, not word of recall and int. For the love of god don’t change recall flasks, those implications go far beyond the bash vs reflex in PvP problem.

Slightly Increase the % chance a PC gets to land a bash/trip.
Slightly decrease the % resistance to bash/trip that reflex gives.
Done. Doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.

As it stands, it takes 30+ wp/fort to reliably save against those spells. I would say it takes about half that in reflex to negate bash. If someone invests in 30+ reflex, they should be near impossible to bash but they are going to be susceptible to other ways of getting killed - as it should be.

Side note, I do like the idea of a miss vs crib fail on bash, I think that would help a lot.

Yeah. I don’t think changing the way recalls work is the solution.
Perhaps you can make store-bought potions to achieve your desired chase-scene. If you don’t have a priest around, you have to use these half-ass recalls until you can get someone to brew you true recalls.
Idk. I think recall works just fine. But the fact that we can’t ensure that someone -can’t- recall is the issue.

Yeah, because 3+ vs 1 ganks need more help.

While I can't give you any hard numbers, I can tell you those above numbers are inaccurate. It does not generally take a 30+ fortitude or willpower to reliably save against max art casters. It certainly can when impairment is a factor, but that will typically require a protracted battle to manifest. IIRC reflex save probability against getting knocked prone tracks fairly closely to spell save probability against high art casters ever since the 12/07/2015 code update. The only way your statement that someone would need half as much reflex to reliably save might be accurate is in the case of quadrupeds and dwarves, who are harder to knock prone. Even then, I don't think the difference is that significant.

The main mechanical difference at play is that melee classes don't generally have a way to impart impairment to opponents (while it is ironically the easiest save to impair for casters that make use of one of a few specific spells). So, should we consider adding reflex impairment to targets that save against going prone? Would it also be cool if we did things like add reflex impairment from skills like heckle, blitzkrieg, and head butt? What about a pretty big reflex impairment from a hamstring? What about a reflex impairment from being blinded (be it from dirt, darkness, color spray, or whatever), which of course could be mitigated by blind fighting. Full disclosure, I'm not a huge fan of the impairment mechanic, but it is what we're working with and it might be very useful to balance this particular issue. Doing it this way could prevent one-round autoganks against people who dare to stay logged in when facing large numbers of opponents on the who list, but also make it possible to land more kills in pitched battles, where everyone is an enthusiastic participant.

Or just cut all melee damage by 40% and set bash back to what it was before prone, except make it fail at least 25% of the time. Stop people from being over to overwhelmingly destroy people in one to two rounds of combat.

Some do, but most don't. That said, a lot of them can kip up anyway, so they don't stay prone for long. Some are also extremely hard to knock prone in the first place.



Does anyone ever just spam shrink spells at enemies? Pretty cheap to cast and you can shrink all those big things down to size for your party to smash. I wonder if that would be remotely useful to do. Anyway, in terms of the ratio of petrification-immune to non-immune monsters out there, it is pretty low. Same with magic immunity, though it is no doubt always irritating to the casters to come across those. One thing I've done as a builder to mitigate no-magic rooms is to create items that allow you to summon charmable, controllable, tameable, and dominatable monsters that you can fire up after passing through no-magic rooms, which even sometimes still follow you around when you arrive at the next set of no-magic rooms. YMMV with those, of course, and in some zones they're still not super useful. I can always add in a few more things like that if people find them remotely useful.

Can't wait to see the logs of people taking on Ephialtis after melee damage gets reduced by 40%. Yikes.

Or just let us take our own charms wherever we go. That would be quick easy and not reliant on a specialized item that someone can hoard.

He would suffer the same penalty. 40% melee damage drop across the board, sheesh.