Shattered Kingdoms

True. So if defenders would rather avoid combat than fight, the basis for complaint is limited. Actually logging out to avoid PK is a rule violation, of course. But if as claimed, players are willing to go that far, it illustrates the difficulty of forcing combat on the unwilling. If a faction wants great IC victories, PK power needs to be accompanied by some RP savvy.

Making IC choices to avoid conflict can be roleplay.

Making OOC choices to avoid combat can be metagaming.



Given that even the who list was changed to make it harder to observe when a character logs in and out, how can a single player generate a succinct and complete documentation of what OP discusses in a way that would actually be a report worth the Rules Manager's time?



Without intending nor desiring to get into specifics that haven't been published for the entire community to review and comment on, the recent GRP potentially demonstrates that RP savvy is not necessarily required for great IC outcomes. If a conflict exists and other players avoid it rather than have their characters end it, how can PvP or RP be generated? Is avoiding combat good PvP? Is avoiding argument good RP?

Arcadie, to the extent you're saying this is difficult to solve with rules, that's the same point I'm trying to make. That's why I'm suggesting looking to RP. By that I mean not just playing a character consistently, but the stagecraft of setting up something worth playing.

Say you're in Faction A, and you wish that Faction B would give you more of a fight. One possibility is generating a plot where Faction B can gain something, either material or emotional, but has to fight with you to participate. Or perhaps Faction B really does have a leader who just can't accept IC defeat. Then you could try a plot that makes that leader look so silly IC, he eventually gets pulled down by Faction B's internal RP. If it's unclear what to do, faction leaders can always communicate OOCly. I'd argue the leader forums largely exist to promote such communication when it helps the game.

In my view, "metagaming" is not always a bad word. We have rules against exploiting limitations of the game system, as in the issue with following NPCs. There are concerns that the game shouldn't be about manipulating the immortals. But finding ways to bring IC actions in line with OOC player desires is a real benefit to such a social game - particularly one already struggling with player count.

Arcadie, if you knew that a certain trib member was on when you attacked, but isn't there shortly after the start of it, then report it. If you didn't know if they even logged in, then there still is no problem. You are trying to find a problem. I say again, you either know xyz is logging out or you don't. If you don't, then you have no reason to care. If you do, report it.

What you're saying, Galactus, is that you think it's a reportable offense? Or that when in doubt, we just let the Rules Manager privately decide what is and isn't actionable?

It's difficult to determine whether or not you agree with OP's premises.

Logging out to avoid PK is a reportable offense. As was previously stated.

I think I understand. In your opinion, if we identify a method by which a player can more easily commit a reportable offense -- such as following an NPC -- should that method be removed from the mechanics of the game?

Tribunal alerts giving tribunal members a pulse is not a bad idea. Tribunal deposits still need a waiting period for bounty spawns and based on the poll results that seems to be the majority opinion.

Not at the cost of ruining a trib to be able to protect themselves. Yes, the bounty NPCs don't actually do anything to stop that, but it is supposed to give them time to prepare. So, unless there will always be bounty NPCs (which no one has suggested otherwise) you are hurting the players that are playing by the rules for the ones that don't. tbh, not sure why logs of login/lougout when bounty NPCs are triggered aren't kept somewhere for IMMs to use as a tool to catch cheating.

At least until you consider recall or tribunal recall ... the means by which someone actively seeks combat in this situation if they are outside of their nation. Then it seems rather counter productive there is a reason why a tribunal member can recall to three different locations its so they dont get their backside handed to them the instance they show up.

I in no way support logging out to avoid PK in a nation I believe in recent time Ive only ever logged out once in a PK situation in which I informed the person I was on a lunch break that ended 5 min before the encounter started and I was already late to get back to work.

That being said. Is this a big issue when you look at the bigger picture. If they are ninja logging and getting reported they will lose their flag eventually (so win for the attacker?).0 If the proposed situation is implemented people will move from the city and start camping cabal HQs more than they already do to achieve the same end (less interaction both PK and non PK related so loss for SK?). I would rather they have the chance to be lame well being in a public space where interaction can happen rather than in a HQ where interaction will not happen. This is why for better or worse (mostly worse) my last character was almost always somewhere public when not actively doing something that was more suitable to not be.

I really think this is an attempt to patch a hole in a sieve when it comes to peoples interactions with PK. Deal with the root causes of the issue dont try to patch a system that is already abused by both sides of the issue. Here is a throw away idea to encourage people to get involved in PK more, after being in X number of PKs you can flag an item making it easier to enchant to its max potential. This would making recovery less painful if your losing on the other hand if your winning now is the time to go out to those PitA places to get that l337 item to enchant knowing you can one time it. It has little impact on the actual flow of the game just saves some time for people who are in a lot of PK (they are going to enchant the item as well as they can anyway).