Shattered Kingdoms

Ok, backstab is a vicious surprise attack - makes sense that someone whos pulse is racing would be too jumpy for it to happen and moving around too much for it to happen in combat.

Circle stab is a flanking attack that can be done in combat - presumably while someone is fighting and paying more attention to the person they are fighting there are opportunities to flank, however you can also circle stab someone in formation that isn't fighting. Since you can already do this in combat (pulse is obviously racing) why could not not open with such a flanking attack, racing pulse or otherwise?

Hamstring is a targeted attack, not so much sneaky or flanking or surprising - so far you can open with the attack and do the attack in combat so it really seems just like a vicious targeting job that someone could see coming but just not realize its going for their hamstring (maybe they just think you're going for the leg or whatever). Why can't you use this attack when their pulse is racing if it's just a precision blow that you can already do in combat? It couldn't really be abused (spam 'ham' 'flee' 'ham') because you can really only get in two good hamstrings before you're done with the legs anyways.

Thoughts?

Rogues do not need a buff, and that comes from someone playing a rogue.

I'm playing one too, and if anything, they need to be toned down some, I don't think there's another class like it as far as reequipping an 8/8 straight dagger and just going and wtfwrecking someone straight upon resurrection without any preparation or thought involved

The only thing that I find annoying is I think rogues should be able to steal from corpses like they do from the living, especially in cities where it is theft to get an item off a corpse. I think it would be nice to steal xxx corpse and have no one in the room see you and avoid the law. But rogues really need no buff so that's just a pipe dream

If you get rez'd and kill someone with a single bs the person you just killed is a newb anyways, and that's coming from a newb. I dont know, it's just irksome how many twinky ways around a rogue there are: keep your pulse up (plenty of twink ways for that) and keep someone behind you and you're fine; you basically end up fighting a scout without a great pet... I mean, doesn't even faerie fire up the pulse? Plus if the rogue is flying (which if you're not flying you're not pvping anyways) you can't dirt kick so you start the fight by throwing something or xbow.

In pvp you're basically either going up against a caster or a fighter. For casters your best shot as a rogue is a good bs, but every caster has a way to keep up their pulse pretty easily and with a charm in front and a pet behind one way or another backstab's out. Hamstring is your only other starting option but they should be flying so it doesn't do enough to kill and their charm/undead/etc have plenty of time to kill your pet then you.

For fighters you hope to bs and ham/circle before your pet dies, but any fighter will survive a bs pretty easily and that's assuming they don't have a pet behind them. If it's a barb you're obviously not going to bs. Without that good starting hit, you're screwed, so you'd have to hope to have some good scroll action.

All those things about rogues are all very situational. Rogues kill people quite easily and do not need a buff. The only problem you'll have with playing a rogue is running into veteran players who are always prepared for them, but 1v1 against an average player the chances of a rogue killing someone is generally higher then them not. I personally don't feel they need anymore help right now.

My advice is to try to be more prepared for a fight then the guy you are going after. If he is waiting for a backstab and has a pet behind him then use potions, pets of your own, and other players to help even up the fight. Potions alone can typically make up for a loss of using a backstab.

You have the insane skill on your list called scrolls, you should read up on it, and your argument is based upon killing skilled players which isn't relevant. In that, a skilled player can find a way to negate the danger of nearly any player their facing.

My argument has nothing to do with killing players--I was merely countering your arguments against this with something other than "that's not what I'm talking about..."--my argument is this:

You should be able to hamstring someone who's pulse is racing because you can use it in a fight--it's a targeted shot that can be used twice.

For circle stab I don't care if it changes, I'd just like to figure out why you can circle stab someone in a group that isnt fighting themselves but can't start a fight with one.

Sorry, my fault for letting myself get dragged into a buffing rogues argument, so I won't continue it by asking how being able to hamstring someone with a racing pulse will make rogues WTFUNBEATABLE.

It's not about how much sense it makes, it's about balance. Making the only way to be protected from a 40% damage attack (on a caster with a good dagger) standing in the 2nd row...would be a bad idea.

Incoming pun~

It is a matter of being flat-footed. (A term meaning not combat ready--no racing pulse.)



But, seriously! Hamstring is thus a logial possibility if and only if you are flanking your opponent OR she is not in a fight (flat-footed.)

When you flank your opponent you are in combat with her, but she is focused on an assailant other than yourself. She is exposed and combat ready. (1,0 -- True)

When you open the fight with hamstring, she is out of combat and not focusing on ANYONE. She is not 'exposed' and is flat-footed. (0,1 -- True)

If you're fighting her head on, you're not flanking your opponent. Her pulse races -- She is not flat-footed. (0,0 -- False)

The XOR statement is, thank goodness, impossible: she cannot both be flanked and flat-footed. (1,1 -- being unsound, validity is not an issue)

Your sticky situation: her pulse is racing but she is not in combat with you. She is not focused on you, yes, but she is also not focused on your ally--in this sense, she is NOT being flanked. She may be out of combat, yes, but she is still battle-ready with heightened alertness. She is NOT flat-footed, either. (QED, 0,0 -- False.)

In order for hamstring to be used as intended on someone with a racing pulse, the code must determine if that pulse-racing victim is currently in combat with someone outside your group. I believe this is possible, but I also believe the spirit of the code is such that a racing pulse bequeaths combat alertness and the benefits of expecting an attack. There is a subtle difference between starting a fight and joining a fight, and as it currently works, the code discriminates between the two.