Shattered Kingdoms

ThunderWolf, you're just whining. Back when I had Railen, there were all sorts of stuff that the current KD had in mind that I may or may not have been privy to. More than once I sat there thinking "What the hell is going on here?", and rp would often shift to the point where I felt very out of place. But hey. That's rp. You don't always get to pick it, choose it, or be in command of it. Deal. Even with a leader flagged character, the KD can go over your head with the way he wants the country to develop. Such is the fate of Tenkawa, Basma, and Teona...who somewhere along the lines left Zhensh and went to Taslamar :/

Whining? No, I think she had a task that was quite frankly beyond her characters ability to pull off alone. There were a bunch of issues going on with this character so this should have been a Tribunal decision at least on how to make the change anyways. The way she approached the subject wasn't clear at all, especially with the other Talons.

The character of Carita truly had too many other obstacles occuring in character to stay focused on any one task. But had this been discussed on the forum then a more direct plan could have been worked up so that it could have been implemented instead of floundering due to lack of sufficient communication. Although the fact that we are constantly informed that these organizations are player run, they should have some input. Evenif the KD wishes to make the change, it should still be discussed on how best to do this, so that 3 to 4 weeks later it's not still sitting in limbo as this has done.

So whining? I think not. I just think this task was too much for one person with everything that was happening with the character at the time. And the fact that after the incidents with the Tribunal and the bigger incidents within her faith that took place last night, which have ultimately caused her to delete, my point is thus proven.

Discussing an in-character change of direction with membership is good, but the discussion should be held in the game with the noteboard used to inform the people who couldn't attend what is going on.

This is all fine and good D, but the problem in this case was it wasn't stated on the board clearly what was going on so there was much confusion. This is why I think on the Tribunal Forum would have been easier to ask and get clarrification because from what was posted in game, it was taken by several of us pretty much the same way, which isn't the way it was intended.

Agreed, D. Btw, I wasn't trying to speak of my own specific derailing, but was trying to make a summarization of what has gone on with leadership throughout the game and why as a whole the RPK that is strived toward with 'raids' and the evolution of 'war and peace' diplomacy has fallen on it's rear. We can sit and blame the code all day but so long as leaders don't take the initiative and members in general don't take notice or care in what other RP is going on around them, things fall on their face. These statements have _nothing_ to do with Endrial nor Talon leadership, which I felt I had included in what I was doing, considering I submitted a proposal in game and had it stamped with approval and went on my way. That's all I wish to say on the matter. It's water under the bridge and any further discussion of the topic belongs in the Talon forum.

Getting back to topic - Endrial's right. When a KD wants to re-design the government wheel, interaction with existing leadership as to 'this is what, and this is why' or at least 'this is what, go ahead and explain why.' and get it out to your group at large. I _thought_ I had in posting the same note on the Talon noteboard.

And thus I go back to my rather lengthy post here. I could have gone OOC. I could have posted a note in the forums to get attention. I could have sought to make OOC contacts to facilitate things. I could have talked to Endrial OOC about what I was doing. I could have sat around waiting for Achernar to tell me how things were going to change, but I thought I could set an example. Behold the example of a failed attempt, and how lack of player interest or care? IC caused a void in the RP and plot development.

Now I am going to ask again as in my previous post. Why do players crave OOC forum notificaton more than reading an IC note board for RP events? Why if players do not see immortal direct intervension do they assume either there is none, or it is nothing to fuss about? Why do so many groups on average fail with maintaining the status quo of leadership and an active membership of oh say.. 8 individuals during peak hours? What can be done by the playerbase to improve the game? What suggestions do we have for the admin (not more gripes against CRS)? I've offered several, and hope from this discussion brings more insight.

I'll whine even farther back when you played Xiric, damn shame to, almost got you until you fled into the sewers. but the one hit mangle from my ambush was such a nice sight

Moral of the Story, if you leader can't lead, join the opposing force and have him butchered.

In an ideal world, perhaps. But at the end of the day, the KD's vision of the kingdom and its direction supersedes that of the players involved in the Tribunal at any given time. Odds are the KD will have been plotting and working on his "masterplan" before the characters concerned were even conceived and even if he wasn't, he'll still be left pushing it long after they're gone.

There will be aspects of it they're not entitled to know, and things that the KD would rather reveal as they unfold rather than give away the trick before hand. The immortals on our Pantheon are as much storytellers as the rest of us.

So player involvement and co-operation with these things is very much a "nice to have" and is often the thing that "just makes it so", but it can hardly be viewed as compulsory.



I have some sympathy with your ambitions, but, knowing no more of them than you've written here, it's easy to see how they failed. Personally, I've never been involved with, initiated or run any large scale RP plot without some level of OOC, off-game co-ordination with the key-players involved. I'm not talking about the run-of-the-mill participants; the faction members and non members that are going to be involved or affected, generally the show is primarily for their benefit, entertainment and immersion, so everything is kepts as IC as possible for them; but any faction leaders and immortals involved need to be brought onboard to a general OOC consensus of intention and direction if such things are to have any hope of working.

If you're the author of the roleplay event in question, it's your job to do this. Do it by forums, do it by PM's, or my old favourite, email. Sure, it breaks the IC purity of RP, but as the instigator your own responsibilities trascend beyond the simply IC views of your character. You start to take on some of the supervisory responsibilities more common to those in an Immortal's position in the game. You're not simply a player in this role, you're now part storyteller yourself.

Does this spoil your fun?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Does knowing the trick spoil the show for the magician? Does the singer hear less in the song that he sings than his audience? Does knowing the end of the story spoil it for the actor concerned?

Heh. I need more coffee.

In this case the change would be quite a dramatic one and quite frankly there was just no way to IC post this to make it understood what was trying to be done. I read what you posted as did others and none of us understood the full extent of what was trying to take place. Thus more help was needed to get this off the ground. the only way to have pulled this off is to have coordinated it ooc. You may not like going ooc, and in alot of situations you don't need to. Problem is, this was going to be a huge change, so you definitely needed more people on board to pull this off. Also other suggestions would have probably helped your cause. Also with the change inquestion, it would have had to be rp'd gradually some dissention and then the change comes about. To just all of a sudden have the change would and as you found out, be like a train wreck. The event in question was of such a large scale, one person couldn't have pulled it off alone.


Again, this boils down to if more are involved, then it give what you're trying to do more validity. You merely needed HELP and a PM to the right people to brainstorm the plot a bit and then figure out how to put it in action was all that would have been required to get this off the ground. This wasn't a mere change in a law, this was a change that would have affected everyone that has any dealings with Zhenshi in the future. This was a global change. I tend to think things of this magnatude have to have some ooc coordination to pull off smoothly.


One, people get bored
Two, they may get PK"d into deletion, simply because it's just not fun.
Three, WoW
Four, Perhaps interactions within the group aren't what they seemed to be while on the outside looking in.

I know when I lead the Talons, I worked my [REDACTED] off and the bullseye that was on my back for being a Talon became much larger as leader. Fact is, some people aren't as stubborn as I am and after a bit of PK, it doesn't matter how good the in group RP might be, being killed several times in a day and losing your [REDACTED] you just spent a couple hours gathering, gets old.
I know I just got tired of Endrial there towards the end as I truly was getting burnt out on leading. Leaders are responsible for helping generate plots and stories. They coordinate things ooc all the time just to get something that's going to be hopefully fun for everyone else involved.


I've seen elsewhere ideas that Achy has, such as some rewards based on continued play of a character. Some reward for the character that reachs certain age ticks in their lives. I think this type of rewarding the player for playing a long lasting character would be good enough for some people that they may stick with it longer. Longevity is the best thing to fix alot of the membership problems.

Quicky on the note about CRS and the QQing on that:

When was the last time you ppl saw an actual raid for relic taking O_O? A month? Month half?

I raid all the time.