Shattered Kingdoms

While I think I'd like to see cabals being more secretive, I think the best way to do that is through RP and less open use of powers. I don't think changing the code around the cabal or tribunal powers is really that fun of a prospect. How about something instead of wimping the cabals? I'm not sure I like the idea of stripping a power from a cabal member or not letting someone have leadership. Perhaps there could be some hidden way that non-group members could have an advantage. Say...no spirit disorientation affects... anything instead of wimping the cabals or tribunals. The removal of leadership from dual-members would make it obvious that the character in question is a member of a cabal and a tribunal.

Another idea could be to give affiliated members dues. They would be deducted from their account on a regular basis and if they fail to maintain dues they become tarnished. The cabals could have higher dues than the tribunals. The dues might go into the cabal fund or perhaps just back into that kingdom's economy.

A

Stop the bus, how did we get to wimping tribunal and cabal powers?

My two cents(which is by the way worth more than all of yours) is that we should just simply take both, give each cabal leadership, and give MC a new funny skill, like... Cannibal sucks (very good)

I wasn’t suggesting a wimping perse but a shift. Yes I suggest removing a couple of powers from cabals and maybe re-appropriating them. In return cabals remaining skills get to be used without other seeing who or what happened unless they are the target (they still don’t see who). That alone is significant but cabals would also shift focus thereby gain power as a group.

Tribunals would flat out be getting buffed by being allowed take soldiers into other countries (and they might be the beneficiaries of the re-allocated powers) and their members will be more powerful due to the cabal powers they already have. Although, this comes at a price, namely some of their members might have other loyalties and agendas.

Ultimately, I’m not suggesting a real wimping when you look at the whole picture. In fact I’m suggesting a change that will add much greater depth to the RP experience, greater tactical opportunities, and more opportunities for every individual player.

I just want to make two quick points; I would not favor dual membership if all that happen was suddenly any player can belong to a cabal and a tribunal without adjusting the way things currently work. This would in fact be a greater problem then having inactive player organizations and all that goes with that.

Second, without code support cabals will not be able to remain secretive. I grant RP can do many things but in many situations (such as trying to remain a secret society) the success falls to the lowest common denominator. In other words someone might try to stay secret but another character might find something out and then it spreads very quickly. The basic point is; once someone farts they can’t take that fart back. So, no matter how they try to RP secrecy it only takes one person inside or outside of the cabal ruin it for the whole cabal. Because this is a situation where we have to account for the lowest common denominator, I believe strong leadership needs to be coupled with code support. I understand it is more work (for D at least) but it is better to get it right the first time then to half [REDACTED] it and end up in a worse spot then you are now.

Lei Kung

Why is it such a problem to just allow them to join tribunals without adjusting?

What kind of adjusting?

Pay for powers? Um....no.

Why not? upkeep of Cabal halls, training of defensive guards...

Because you're working for the cabal, the cabal doesn't work for you. They should be paying you, if anything. Even a CEO gets paid. And hey, if you don't pay, do you lose your cabal HQ? Ohhhhhhhh noooooooooo! People will be lining up to not pay.

Oh, and peso, your currency is Mexican. You're kidding yourself if you think your cents are worth anything

Are you kidding me? Haven't you been reading any of my posts, they all been about the adjustments I think should be involved with dual membership.



Well there is the lacking of benefits such as: cabals being the political shadow players, tribunals becoming a focus, countries able to war, and lots of tactical and intrigue that would come from the interplay of the listed benefits.

As for direct problems resulting from unadjusted implementation of dual membership there are a number of things that could happen. First, someone could lead a tribunal and a cabal (the problems should be obvious). Second, without removing some of the direct powers cabals have they will remain the focus, thus tribunals become even more of the dirty red-headed step child of cabals. Third, this would be a major buff (empowering cabals much more then tribunals) without providing a direction. Thus it would turn into power gaming and tactics at the cost of RP. Granted it doesn’t have to but without providing a direction it bows to the lowest common denominator, like CRS faced in the ninja raids before the protection against it. Fourth, there is the abuse of either tribunal hoping (from switching cities) to being booted from all player organization with the oath breaker flag. Fifth, again there is power gaming but on an organizational level. The leader of any giving organization (more likely a cabal because they aren’t limited to a country) that induction for the sake of power becomes more important then RP (as has happened in the past). Sixth, without direction (or not planning for the lowest common denominator) it could negatively impact/abuse the economic system going in through power gaming (could be a valid economic attack or the result of those attempting to abuse the system).

Now that is just a start, I’m sure there are many more but I think I’ve made my point that if not implemented properly there will be problems. Outside of the problems from just allowing dual membership, I think the opportunities lost in the benefits that could be attended is much greater. Just like when you put all of your money in the bank you don’t lose money perse but you lose the opportunity to make money via investment. Or if you are to buy stock A then you can't buy stock B...it is call opportunity cost and even if it doesn't seem like a cost it really is.

Lei Kung

You think cabals won't be the focus anyways? Please, what organization do you feel the players will choose is more important? Their oath to a country, or their secret organization? mos tof the talk has been "push your CABALS ideals through your TRIBUNAL" which means he tribunal is a tool for their cabal. Wimping cabal powers won't change that. A tribunal is just a place to protect, a cabal is an organization with a set of ideals and goals bigger than the country.

Also Obvious or not, if you don't name the problems of dual leadership, then how can we speculate on them? Claiming they should be obvious isnt a viable response because to some they may not be. This is really a small problem if there were problems, just dont promote the player to leader of both. Problem solved.

You claim it empowers cabals more, that's bull. If a player joins a tribunal that tribunal now gains all the skills that player has from ther class/cabal to help in defense, that tribunal member gets law immunity and a few buffs they could get from players anyways. Tribunals get more empowerment from this. It's just their use is limited to when someone attacks.

Tribunal hopping? What are you talking about? Can you do it now with current tribunal members? Why would you be able to just because cabal members can join them now?

Oathbreaker can be changed to apply to cabals, since tribunals will be changed anyways to a new flag a new "oathbreaker" berhaps a "betrayer" flag could be added for quitting.

As it is induction for the sake of power will exist with or without dual membership, some cabals do focus on Rp and are not all about mass induction. There's no proof it will increase any more than already just because people can join both.

The economic system ill take your word on as I dont feel like thinking anymore, though if you provided a bit more detail how it would be much appreciated.

As for abusing it to bankrupt a place, it could already happen.