Shattered Kingdoms

How many of you remember Yarec? The MC gnome shaman during Galus' leadership?

He kept his identity secret, he associated with enemies of the MC, he fought MC while undercover(giving away info to the MC, even if he died) and kept it this way until the Teron/Empire war. Was it like 1 year RL or so?

He was only in one cabal, yet he was an excellent spy. Did it work because he had dual membership and inflitrated? No, he RPed that *gasp*.

And also because MC players kept this thing a secret. Even if a player can join 2452423 cabals/tribunals at once, if another one leaks the info(IC or OOC) the whole effort might be gone. And the way the cabals work, there is a way to find out IC anyone's affiliation with a cabal.

It is only unreasonable to someone who doesn't understand -gasp- tactical and mechanical considerations in this mud. There has been what, -one- person in the last 2 years of the mud who has managed to be in pk but still keep his cabal identity secret? Yarec.

There should not be an OOC restriction on being allowed to join cabals, because it lets leaders know that all of their members are trustworthy and have absolutely no fear of a spy being in their midst. Furthermore, as has been shown by atleast two experienced players (DA too woot) nobody would be able to maintain this secrecy who wanted to engage in real pk. It would be a great rp test and force players to be more secretive. This is what the mud is looking for.

Please realize that just because 'omg he would have 10 abilities' doesn't mean he would have them for more than two days and he would be able to use more than 5 of them - and the amount of rp needed to get 10 cabal abilities is staggering.

Perhaps. But I think it's still too much of a leap on any number of fronts.

In the first place, dedicating yourself to the service of a cabal is more akin to joining a religion than anything else. Cabal abilities are supernaturally endowed upon the dedicates. It's not unreasonable to believe that whatever entity is empowering the cabal and is going to know if you're lying and actually already belong to another cause.

In the second place, why would it take such a staggering amount of RP? A pacifist priest could find a place in the Hammer as a healer. Same priest would fit in quite nicely with the Fist. A little understanding on the part of the two leaderships concerned, and there's no problem.

Not to mention if Chem is planning to have his new minotaur monk through means OOC'ly foul and underhand, take over the Harlequin and the Talon, just think what he could do if he wasn't restricted to just a cabal and a tribunal, but could actually have as many cabals as he liked?

Didn't bother to read that one Lei, you're post took stuff of mine out of context, and stuff that I had said earlier in the thread that I might have changed my mind one, and didn't necessarily apply to the post I made right before your own. So basicly its mostly just an attack on me, which is sad because I used to think you were a good thinker. Oh well, guess you proved me wrong on that one, good job.

A pacifist would not fit into the Hammer as a healer - their entirely based upon crusading and finding darkies, regardless of whether they are committing wrongs at the moment or not, and eradicating them. The fist completely disagrees with this and will not fight enemies until these enemies actually commit wrongs - that's why they are two different cabals and not one. No character could fit into both of them if there is well-done roleplay.

I hope you'll understand if I'm not heart broken over the fact you "no longer think I'm a good thinker". Fact of the matter is you were asking questions/making statements that to answer I had to repeat myself. I'm sure you can understand how frustrating that would be. I have no ill will against you or most other people here. I just think quality discussions develop from keeping on track and paying attention to what is being said/written.

Lei Kung

Except you didnt go into much detail on some of your points, you left them very vague and when i asked what you meant you took it to mean i didnt read your posts.

Well if you have specific questions please ask. I will do my best to answer them, but please be specific. If you haven't noticed I tend to be long winded and the more specific the focus the better for everyone involved. General questions I believe I have answered, maybe that is the misunderstanding. Not to be too obvious, this only really pertains to my vision or aspects of my vision of the best way to implement dual membership. Note: I will not get into specifics of cabal powers.

Lei Kung

That's one interpretation of each cabal, and a common one. But neither organisation need be quite as superficial as that. All the cabals have their stereotype, but none of them need wear it like a straight-jacket.

Besides, even if we choose to take such a linear interpretation of, for instance, the Hammer, that doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility of it having non-combatants within its ranks.

I agree that Algon is wrong, but not for the same reason. Quite frankly, any actual pacifists would have a problem with the Hammer of Light's methods even if they were a part of said organization in a strictly non-combative position.

However, the Fist do not have to be pacifists.