Shattered Kingdoms

Seram also usually had from what I saw, pretty much awesome eq, which your hellion might not have had, also one of the best high level spells hellions get is useless against other darkies(protection) I'd almost bet whoever got to cleave in a hellion/hellion fight would usually win.

OVT what are the chances of that group ever happening? If we want to talk about impossible groups, give me 3 fistie mercs/paladins front row, 3 fistie sorcs polyed into dragons with MI up second row and 3 whatever in the third row, bards or priests or something.

That'd be approximately a billion attacks a round plus whatever the third row did.

Nine cha max hellions in one group is dead when they meet two holy wording priests with anything in front of them.

Domination ISN'T that bad. There are actually a few choices that no one pays attention to. A cabal gets an intersting variety, and there are swashbuckler and barbarian dominates that aren't too bad to handle. Sure, there's the big and bad one that hurts a lot - and they're in limited amount. The main reason people don't use them, is because you have to be a deep-elf hellion to pull of holding one and casting anything else.

And minette, intimidate DOES take up concentration. Check out a release list sometime when you're playing around with it.

Edit: Syn clearly doesn't remember the MULTITUDE of hellions that were around only a few months ago. Chaim, Slayne, Senach, Satomi, Rayvorath, Korian and I know I'm still missing a few. A nine-group of hellions was entirely possible - I even think there's a log of such a group getting owned - or there was on the old forums of mrp's.

Alright, get a group of nine hellions and watch it walk through a city without getting attacked by any law NPCs.

The fact that you can stack intimidate makes the "you can't attack us" part so much better. Add a sanc vial for the damage absorbtion and more "you can't attack me" and intimidate IS better.

We're talking about hellions with base abilities, versus paladins with base abilities, OVT. Obviously any class with sanc/stoneskin/heal/protection isn't going to be so bad.

My point still stands that a 9-group of hellions has one huge GLARING weakness. Holy words.

Whats the point of just argueing base abilities?

So, no cabal, and what not?

Then it's whoever gets to attack really.

If the paladin gets his holy word off then the hellion would lose his dominate and die.

If the hellion runs up cleaves, order all bash, hellfire...he wins.

If you say, well most hellions don't use dominate, I'll say most hellions DO use other things besides base stuff. So I'm using their base stuff. Both can use non-base skills like -bash- because of pets, the hellion more so.

It's kinda pointless to argue something like that, in practice or theory.

...That's been what my point was all along. Note - Syn is the one arguing that hellions suck, here.

I know this, Goldlantern. I also knew that someone would be 'smart' and point this out for me. That is the exact reason why I added the "no upkeep to be always on" part into the sentence. Just for you.

For the other readers, intimidate begins to take up concentration after a successful skill check.

This might be the most popular topic of all time on SK. Paladin vs Hellion. It comes up alot.

The one important thing about hellions and Paladins is, a hellion should not use the duelest guild and not be limited to his base abilities. This has been stated by D. Hellions code is not as strict as the Paladin one for a reason strike and fade. A hellion when fighting a duel should try something like, "The stones and surrounding land is are the battle ground." Not "Lets duel at the stones." perhaps "You go to X and When I arrive the battle will being" hellions have sneak. Hellions should be always looking for the advantage and because of their code they in a "straight up duel" should always be able to word it so they have it. If the paladin refuses the duel and the conditions are not to one sided the Hellion should lord it over them.

Naked vs naked, save one weapon, a hellion will kill a paladin everytime.

What makes things tricky is preparation and as with all things in sk, preparation is everything. The better prepared party usually wins.

This is really a stupid argument. Every class on sk is only as good as the person who plays it.