Shattered Kingdoms

You definately need a higher level of tactical ability and a certain amount of confidence and ego to not OOCly lose your mind when your artifact is taken, etc. And if you're not openly willing to participate in the PK openly, or fit in directly with the leader's philosphies (depite that your character may have been conceieved as fitting/appropriate in your own mind) cabal leaders are not so inclined to accept you into the ranks. I don't see tribunal leaders using the same criteria for membership. I don't want to say its more RP intensive but characters in general I find more diverse, less specifically PK task oriented.

I often do see the levels of PK coming out of cabals superior to that coming out of tribunals, and this goes doubly so when the tribunal member id outside of their home kingdom. Newbies may equate this to the nifty skills cabals get. The few times I've seen a successful tribunal, militarily (outside of MC, as they are a cabunal) it is when the leader places a greater need on their ranks in the PK, and is capable of leading group PK consistently... all too few and far between. The majority of this type of player tends to go to the cabals, or when they get to a tribunal, they find
themselves with a group of players that isn't use to or able to handle the same level of expectations at this point.

Getting back on topic - I've seen some tribunal -> cabal -> tribunal jumps from a single character. Cooperation of leadership and appropriateness of RP being accepted from both usually is helpful in said transitions. Part of the whole reason the oathbreaker flag got put in is there was a string of disgruntled 'characters,' who once ousted from a group for defiant behavior, quickly looked for opposing groups to join and spill a lot of information. For _players_ it was a good way OOC for people with a grudge, to really take advantage of a system. When this became a commonplace practice is when the administration stepped in and made the oathbreaker flag. "You want to serve us but we can not trust you with all of our own information. While your actions have helped us, you have proven yourself dishonorable and that is not a risk we can take, officially. However, if you still wish to be of use..."

Carita

There are advantages and disadvantages between Cabals and Tribunals. Neither is better or worse than the other, they are simply different.

Personally, I'd love for my RP to take me to the Fist, but due to being a Barbarian, I can't. RP the jump would be more for Spiritual Enlightenment of my character. Also my character was inducted into the Tribunal really early, level 6 or something like that. So my character was 18/19, my character has lead this tribunal since age 40 and will soon be 100. I think leading a Tribunal for almost 60 years is plenty for anyone. So if IC I wasn't a Barbarian, I could allow my RP to retire from the Tribunal and move to the Cabal.

Is one better than the other, I don't think so. I see them as different and both have advantages and disadvantages. Cabals have their special skills they can call upon anytime, unless their relic gets swiped. Tribunal's are great in their homeland, although I think a couple guards should be available to members. I do agree that diplomacy means more within the Tribunal than Cabals.

Oh and I have allowed some characters to leave the Tribunal to join the Fists in the past. If it's RP'd out. I have also Tarnished and then kicked out others. Another reason I've allowed Tribunal members to leave to join the Fists in the past is our mutual KD asked me to help the Cabal gain more members when I could. But like I said, it just depends on how I'm approached and how the member RP's it out with me. If they try to be all secretive and just leave, then they are tarnished for breaking their Oaths. If they are honest and tell me of their wish to join the lands Cabal, I'm usually more receptive and allow them to move on.

Another thing on moving from a Tribunal to a Cabal or Cabal to a Tribunal, sometimes people just get tired of it and want a change to help make their characters more interesting to them, something new to learn, can help keep interest.

If all that happened with the oathbreaker flag is that it tells the inductor that they have left organization x. Then the leader will be able to take time to think twice about it. I would really like leaders to have a command called

Tribunal/Cabal vet <player> [upon entering this command the leader will know if the player has been or is part of another Tribunal/Cabal and lists them].

A command like this would help because you won't half to wait to try to induct them to know if they were actually in another cabal/tribunal.

I understand why you cant have chars in different cabals/tribunals, but why cant you have 2 chars in the same one?

My opinion is that you will learn more about the game (in all respects- pk, rp, loot, game mechanics, etc.) in a cabal, by far. There are more members on average, more experienced members on average, far more PK oppurtunities, and far more RP oppurtunities outside one's own cabal/kingdom. This is hardly set in stone- this is just a trend i've noticed.

Honestly, when i think about famous leaders in SK, the vast majority of them are cabal leaders and not tribunal leaders. However, if you already play at a high level and have a good deal of experience, you can easily use a tribunal to accomplish far more then they typically do.

I'd like to point out there are many other benefits to being in a tribunal besides the obvious law immunity and control of one law NPC. You can move law NPCs (legally) without being grouped with them into attacking groups to help aid, then group with another and run in to finish the battle. Also, the most important general benefit of being in a tribunal (IMO)... BUFFS. 24/7. High-level ones. Tribunals have varying strengths/selections of buffs, but taslamar for instance has a very good assortment. Any keeper warrior could beat out any other warrior of similar skill and strength fairly easily and even some cabals with passive skills that aid their combat ability.

My view is that breaking an oath is breaking a caras rp unless it is planned, and most are.. When Adroan left the Talons, I had problems irl and such and thought I was holding back the Talons and the good rp with Youma gave me a better reason.. but when I came back i did not know i could not join something else besides the Fists, and Adroan was not a monk.. so I kind of blew his rp... but the oathbreak flag is good for people that truly intend to break the oath they give..

What about in a situation where you joined a cabal to spy for another cabal. You're spying for cabal A on cabal B. Cabal B boots you then its perfectly IC to join cabal A and you're not really an oathbreaker. Or what if you're a thubanite and the cabal vows say that your religous beliefs come first. Then if I betray that cabal am I really an oathbreaker when the very oath I swore said I could follow the precepts of my god above those of the cabal?

This is the exact reason Oathbreaker was invented. So people would use induct and seek induction with great care. This illustration only proves the need for some kind of restriction on faction membership, or everyone would want to make a spy for X cabal. No, lets keep Oathbreaker as it already is. You can move between matching cabals and tribunals. That's enough. Unless we go back to entertaining the idea of allowing access to one tribunal simultaneously with one cabal. I don't see that happening anytime this year or even next, unless someone wins the lottery and gives D half.

A

Wow, so, the oathbreaker flag was invented simply to thwart a particular type of RP?
This illustration proves the need for restriction? We need a flag to protect people from accidentally inducting spies? I really thought it said somewhere in the help specifically that cabals are player-run ordeals?