Shattered Kingdoms

I don't know how it works exactly. I'm just know that the song affects a players to-hit score based on bard level/charisma. I think it might be reasonable to suggest that instead of making it a flat value that a player is affected by, that you offer the saving throw to be affected by HALF of that. It would still give bards something over large groups of players and keep them playable, but (hopefully!) curb the whining from expert players like Cyra who enchant the [REDACTED] out of their equipment so they can't be killed.

I'm worried that if you wimp their songs/skills they are going to get even less popular than they are now, and I'm pretty sure they are one of the least played classes in SK.

You're correct. And someone else mentioned it, it's because bards aren't really ever needed for anything(nice to have, sure, but not needed like a basher or healer), and you can't do much(as a bard) without a group.

I am just going to point out a few things:

A) Sk is, for the most part, a solo-focus mud or small group mud. It does not require you to group with 5 others to achieve everyday goals. Thus, a bard (whose role is support) will naturally be less played as product of the class.

B) You think songs of sleep is NOT overpowered? Two people get together and roll 2 darkie bards (half-elf) and I will show you how sick they can truly be. You all have seen only ONE bard singing songs of sleep, imagine if two were. Effects stack. Those two bards can pretty much chord you to death as they sing and if you are taunted or otherwise unable to flee, you could be a giant barb and still die.

C) No one goes around deaf. That's just stupid. Deafness causes you to have a fail rate on spells and so no one who could cast deafness would deafen themselves.

D) A well played bard can hold his own with most any class 1 v 1. It requires a little prep time and someone to scribe/brew for them, but they are quite able to fight.

Preach it to the masses, sister.

Wimping the songs that a bard has to the point where saving throws NEGATE the affects will make the class almost unplayable from a PK standpoint, since persuade is unreliable because of the willpower save and scrolls are marginal in their effectiveness now (they are better used for defense and utility now).

Players need to be more inventive in countering the songs. Perhaps making the death of the bard in the opposing party the priority will help. Voodoo him/her to death if you know he's coming, and surely s/he'll fall. S/he's got less HP then a scout for god's sake. Oh, and countersongs. Didn't I mention those before? Has anyone tried shooting him/her in the face with two or three crossbows/magic missile from a few rooms away? Doesn't deafness cause the bard to fail his song frequently? Doesn't hitting him with hard-hitting spells like magma and finger of death disrupt his concentration?

Stop asking for wimps/nerfs/changes to a class that is already hard to play and very underplayed, and just use what's available to you in game. There are more options than you think, and you may have to (god forbid!) ask for help from other people that play outside of your clique or have other class abilities.

GEEZ. Did I just ask people to make new friends on SK, and try new things!?!

I'm going to shut up now before I get hung by my own rhetoric.

You know you can't chord and sing at the same time...right? Or sing and recite...or sing and talk...or sing and do anything for that matter.

A) Bards can go ethereal.
B) No one voodoos randomly, especially before group combat. That is just stupid. Stop making up impractical solutions to save your character in game.
C) Spell failure rate is over 50% with a bard singing songs of silence through empirical testing. By then, you're dead. No thanks. Give us a saving throw against this, just like there is against *e v e r y t h i n g e l s e i n t h e g a m e*




This is lukewarm at best for a reasoning. Let me explain why:

Ardith plays Arsilan. Who sexificates Sithara. Who is a bard. Who sings songs of silence in pk.

You are going to tell all of us that one of the most prominent player killers on this mud is just making something up when he says that something is overpowered? ESPECIALLY against a tactic he, himself, uses?

Newsflash, jimbo, it may not be because he's blowing smoke out his [REDACTED] this time. It. Is. Stupid. That. It. Has. No. Saving. Throw. Period.


Edit:



One stops singing and chords you after a few rounds, by then you've kissed enough melee to be dropped by the power chords coming off bard #2. Again, they can just hit you to death too. I merely was giving a range of options.

See what we're saying about Arsilan is that he's been playing with Sithara for almost a year, and guess when he starts saying that Songs of Sleep are overpowered? Thats right a week after the first darkie bard is made. Why do I think he's complaining about it being overpowered? Because he's scared he'll lose his loot since thats the most important thing in his world. Also how often does Sithara really pk? Once in a blue moon? I played my warlock for quite a while in quite a few pks and saw her maybe...once?

You said it yourself, SK is about small groups. I don't see it as an inconceivable tactic to have a warrior/shaman group having the shaman cast deafness on the warriors before a fight with bards to negate the affects of the song. They can still communicate via gtells afterall.

That doesn't seem like a reason to dismiss it as stupid.



The key phrase here is well-played. How many of them can YOU name? NONE! There haven't been any genuinely well-played bards in the history of SK. Somehow or another, they get their [REDACTED] kicked. Even the best preparations aren't usually enough for a bard to win in a majority of their 1v1 fights. They have to pick and choose when and where and who they fight because of how tricky they are to play.

Also, how is getting sometime to scribe and brew for you just a "little prep time"? Last I checked, that can take a while to get what you need. Getting the armor and weapons you need as a bard can be a pain in the [REDACTED] as well, since you need to rely heavily on enchantments to toughen up the bards armor and weapons.

Have you ever looked at the stats required to play a good bard, either? They have to spend points on a lot of stats in order to be effective, making them even MORE dependant on equipment for modifiers.

The point? Bards are hard to play, and even the best players on SK can struggle with them, especially in a solo setting. Why the heck would you want to make them HARDER to play, and even less popular?

Should we just take bards out of the game?

I run around deaf with my hellion if I know a bard or a swashi is going to be there.

I guess we can argue situations all day, but I'm not going to. I'm just offering a bunch of random suggestions to neutralize bards. Many of which I've seen done effectively.

Also, don't make the assumption that I'm playing a bard (if that's what you had meant by that, it was hard to tell by the way you structure your sentences) and trying to get them "saved". I've played two in the past and understand how hard they are to play, even as a veteran eight year player of the game.