Shattered Kingdoms

Once again, brainstorming for the same broken skill. This is not the way to fix it, maybe improve it a bit but it will still be based on totally wrong fundimentals.

-Keeping concentration on the taunted target sounds very reasonable but it's not the balancing change.

I will repeat myself once again and say the same thing I did at all similar threads.

--Set the saving throw vs taunt to a "will" save throw.--

As things stand now, the save is a wisdom check, which makes absolutely no sense. Such checks are required for recovering old memories and are directly associated with the knowledge a character possess.

As I said, I'm with Im2old4u in that I think there should be a willpower save. I don't think the skill is broken, but it could use some tweaking.

CHA versus WIS is pitting the swashie's insulting persuasiveness against your wisdom to see through what he's doing. Maybe if we actually had hard numbers instead of just stories on how often it lands on high WIS characters, we'd be able to build a stronger case for having the skill check tweaked. But I think taunt is not a magical effect for it to have enchantment saves. (Or else, why not give bash a fortitude save and trip a reflex save using the same logic?)

When you think about it, the CHA vs WIS check makes perfect sense. The people who are the most threatened by a swashi's taunt are casters, the very classes who train WIS to max as a general rule. So these classes are tailored to have the natural resistance. Melee classes, who if well made should be able to take the swashi in combat, or at LEAST stand a chance of survivng a whole tick are the ones with low WIS scores and should be the ones who fail it the most as they are the ones most likely to beat the swashi.


I'm perfectly fine with the saving throw as it is. Note that this comes from a person whose been on the receiving end of the stick with a warlock and a hellion. Yes I do have a swashi alt now and I must admit that I fail taunt quite a bit more than I was expecting I would and I have max charisma. I'm still proposing the nerfs formerly mentioned by me above, they make excellent sense balance wise.

I don't think will power saves are the way to go. I'm not however opposed to making straight wisdom checks slightly more effective. Wisdom checks make total sense when you look at it as a class vs class ratio, and not try to rationalize wisom as a stat vs charisma as a stat. Slightly improving the wisdom check in addition to the already in place group ratios check should make things quite balanced. Especially if the above mentioned nerfs are introduced from my former post.

Cannibal, when 20 CHA taunts land on 24 WIS PCs quite often(both ungrouped), then something is wrong with the save.

When a 22 CHA swashie is in a 4-5 members group and succeeds with the first attempt to taunt an ungrouped merc, something is wrong as well.

The fact that taunt ignores things that normally prevent bash(rows, mirror image etc) and also drops INT a lot and prevents any kind of escape(word of recall, teleport etc) make it a slightly overpowered skill. It comes at low level as well and has minimal cost as well(in terms of lag, HP/ME/PE used etc).

I don't know much about any of this but, from a logical perspective I think WIS should be what is used to 'save' against a taunt, as it is wisdom that helps us rise above such things. CHA should be what makes the taunt land, the more charismatic you are, the more people will take notice of what you say.

The victim of the taunt should recieve some sort of frenzy bonus, the message states "... causing you to charge in fury" (or something like that). So why aren't you all frenzied up when you have just been told you are?

Why should the taunter suffer any form of penalty afterwards, for example concentration? It's not like they are shouting it out like a mantra, once the words are spoken they are no longer anything to do with the Swashie. If they fail, well, don't let them taunt for the rest of the tick or something.

As I said, I have no idea how taunt currently works, but if it were new and implemented now then that is what I would expect it to do.

I think it if fine as it is, if you start adding stuff that makes swashys no good, or makes taunt want to be less useable, then what would they have? Trip? wow they would be a weaker barb.. that can duel wield... I say We add third attack to swashys!

I'll agree to that...

...if you take away dual wield.

Yea that will work.. lets make super weak barbs.

Adroan, put this in the 'ideas for 2007' as a new race type if you want it so bad