Shattered Kingdoms

Woah man, simmer down.

Actually, the game SHOULD discourage griffons from using these items. Low-level griffons fight much better unarmed, thanks to mastered self-defense. A shield would tie up one claw. Griffons also have plenty of natural armor to face school monsters.

The only lowbie armor item missing from cities is around-the-body. And until someone ICly starts manufacturing griffon barding, it's going to stay that way. The only other griffon armor slot, the waist, is easy to fill.

Lowbie griffons are in great shape, except for the XP it takes to level any race with bad charisma. High-level griffons ... well, OA puts it well in the other thread.

innate toughtness. You dont need amror. You take hits better than anyone else already.

BS

I repeat, BS

I ran a dorf barb and a grif barb through A'van.

The grif barb got eaten up.... without taking spell damage.

Toughness is great at low levels, but the higher you get the more you need something else. You can't live off of toughness forever.

Toughness is crap at low levels. I levelled a griffon barb in the chancel at veteran and hits frequently deflected off of the iron belt I bought from the Exile newbie school but never off of my hide. I'm sure it's great if you're a griffon of a cloth armor class and maybe a light armor one, though I doubt it, but griffon barbs suck from start to finish.

"but griffon barbs suck from start to finish" - WarlordPayne

I'd refine the statment to identify the 'suckage' for a griff barb really ramps up to noticable levels at journeyman status.

Griffons need a superior form of toughness as an improvement.

Goldlatern has said it before but apparently you've all forgotten what he said already.

Griffons have only received buff over buff over the years.

Does anyone remember Peltic? That was years before toughness and he did just fine.

If you don't think griffons make viable melee classes, then don't play them as a melee class and leave them for casters as the toughness(at GM) will be better than most armor you'd fine.

Just because your griffon barb can't WTFPWN like a dorf barb doesn't mean there is something broken with the griffon race.

NEWS FLASH: Giants can be warlocks, but guess what you can't summon an elemental until your first age tick or without a certain cabal or religion spell.

Does this mean that giants are broken and need a buff?

Wasn't Peltic a griffon merc in the Fists? I'd say thats why he did fine.

Griffon anything in the fist are bad [REDACTED].