Shattered Kingdoms

I'll make my comment after all. I don't greatly care whether retreat leaves people behind or not. Though I think that in terms of plot, more decisive encounters are a good thing.

But let's admit that ICly, the idea of a merc with his hands full of weaponry, dragging multiple people to the next area, all while being attacked in close-combat, is ludicrous. If it's going to be permitted for OOC reasons of fun, just permit it. No weight-lifting check is going to pass the laugh test.

I didn't think about people holding weapons / shields. In that aspect, I agree with Forsooth's idea. It shouldn't be allowed. If they're down, they're doomed. Since regaining your footing is a room echo, they just need to time their retreats mroe tastefully.

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If you add a weight requirement on retreat, you'll just see a rise of orthodox, giant, run-of-the-mill mercenaries. Add a weight requirement on retreat?? God, I'd delete Inzaarid and never play any oddball merc again.

Retreat is an organized retraction of ground. Historically, when great retreats were sounded, warriors took their comrades in arms with them. Some do get left behind, but whether you snag someone out of combat or not is not alone based on personal strength.

Hell, Rallying Cry and Retreat should be CHARISMA based. When you sound the retreat, you ability to lead people and issue command will determine if your group snaps to attention or lags behind. The arguments presented here are so one dimensional they make me sick.

I'm already pissed about the change to ranged combat. I'm personally suffering from many of these changes, and if retreat is nerfed like this you'll see a rise of cookie-cutter GIMERCZ (tm) and will most likely never see delf, elf, sprite, halfling or gnome mercs ever again.

I miss being able to go around with my small band and drag my meat shields out of melee in retreat as I fired my bow. Now everyone took my tactic to the max by organizing ranged squads and F'ing people up. Ranged combat is really not that strong, and as powerful as retreat is, it's appealing for that reason alone. If you can't pull your bashed meat shield out of combat, why even retreat in most settings?

I will never F'ing retreat in Taslamar if my GiBarb isn't coming with me. We're better of duking it out. Hell, often retreat served that singular purpose--to save the bashed or tripped. Alteration of the current retreat to this new and crappier retreat would remove a powerful tactical element.

Mercenaries aren't even as OP'd as everyone thinks--Sorcerers and Rogues and Hellions get one-hitter-quitters. Warlocks. That's all I have to say about warlocks. Scouts get insane pets. Priests get holy word and sanctuary. Barbs get toughness, and berserk. Bards? Let me make a Bard. You won't like me at all. Everyone's got an insane power, and the most insane mercenary power is retreat. This subtle nerf is too great. I saved so many deep-elven party members from certain death with retreat...

Just make it Charisma based if you want to stop 'abuse' of it. It'll force people to allocate level points with more concern. It'll give a non-physical stat a purpose for a class people view as OP'd, and remove the maxed STR, CON, DEX mercenaries we're all so tired of seeing.

I could go all day on this. I'll just stop now. Leave retreat the hell alone. Stop hating on this powerful ability. It's supposed to be powerful. All the classes have trump cards.

If you want to remove ANYTHING, remove CRS. (JK, I know why it exists.) My character is suffering here. One more nerf like this, and I don't think I'll be able to endure the PK arena anymore.

Retreat is totally worthless for all of the reasons that Inzy said. Retreat was suppose to be a strategic withdraw and not just running away. If it is supposed to be a strategic withdraw, then it should take those down with them. If it isn't, which nothing suggests that it is a flee action, then the spell is completely worthless.

Read half - My opinion -

You should drag them out of combat. Mercenaries are trained soldiers. and if you watch any movie, they just drag them by their gear. Its easier to drag someone than you think.

As for evil and greys leaving buddies behind, if it were me and we were losing a battle, and we fled, I would rather have more than less with me, that way my chances increase of not being hit. If I was leaving them to die for my own [REDACTED], it wouldnt be with a retreat, I would flee on my own or word out.

I voted to let retreat take prone party members (with no weight restrictions) for purely balance reasons.

The whole point of this last update seems to have been to inject more skill to PvP. This change goes counter to that.

If you believe mercs need a wimp, wimp something else that will affect damage output, not one of the few alternative skills that can make battle interesting.

It takes more skill to notice when the "XXX regains its footing." message appears and retreat than just simply typing ret s anytime.

True, DA.

But if you leave prone people behind you'll have fewer players setting up to use the retreat tactic. If I know ahead of time I'm going to lose a few of my party members to prone status I'm going to think twice about using the tactic. Better to wait and overwhelm enemies when you have the numbers than face off against larger odds.

I see your point, but I think waiting for prone status of all allies to wear off may have you waiting for a very long time.

Then don't bring the argument of skill. You can't bring the argument of reason either, since it makes more sense the one that is bashed down by a giant can't be taken away by retreat.

Retreat taking away everyone from a group as it is, is a very powerful skill. Probably the best active skill mercenaries have, now that bash has changed. You can wimp it a bit by adding cost(PE/ME/lag), more failure rate or simply making it a less uber skill that can be used to save everyone always.

Maybe let people retreat with prone people, but have a higher chance of failure if members of the group are prone?