Shattered Kingdoms

As I've said previously, I'd be for Shamans losing Sanctuary and getting a buffed SA, and then allow SA to be cast on those unaffiliated with a religion.

On the other hand, I'm not for them losing protection.

If they are going to lose a spell, it should be sanc well before prot.

A shaman being able to call on his spirits to defend another is something I could see as very logical. It's also typically accurate of other portrayals of shaman. I concur mr. sklz.

If shamans and pantheists in general can't get protection from the gods because they are protected from the spirits, they shouldn't receive any prayers from them either(aka rez).

ardith fails once more.

Game Help:


A pantheist observes all gods, knows they are their superiors, and when they are manifested is to RP like they worship them all though they might not be a devoted follower of the god that manifests itself, or of any god at all. There is some small amount of worship rp that players are suppose to follow for all the gods reguardless if they are devoted to an individual one or not.

As a pantheist a god maybe willing to return you to life because you are to observe them in a small way, but he may not be willing to grant you the same protection he would give to people who devote their life to him. The god would want to protect his followers from harm, as a blessing of thanks for their time spent worshiping him and aiding in the spread of his influence around the world. If they are not protected by the one they worship, who will?



Game Help


Shaman's are the medium between the spirits and the physical world. Their spirits guide them, protect them, and direct them in life. Much like how the gods protect their devoted, the spirits protect theirs. There is no reason why the spirits couldn't use the same skills or spells to protect a shaman like the gods use because the spirits ARE the shamans god.

I feel that shamans and barbarians should have a seperate religion tag from everyone else to clear this up. They should be forbidden from being able to join any religion because they are suppose to be devoted to the spirits, which is suppose to be their god. The new religion tag would be there in order to block them from investments.

In return, and I expect to hear a lot of crying about this, spells like spirit aura should no longer be useable by anyone other then a barbarian or a shaman because no one else worships the spirits like they do. Spirit aura should also be able to be casted on a barbarian. Priests get faith related spells, and spirit aura should be the shamans version of the priest spells.

The shaman should be able to keep protection since they are protected by the spirits, but I'm neutral on the idea of them losing sanctuary. SA is a protection spell that is available to shamans only, and sanctuary could go the way as a protection spell for priests mainly. My only thing I have against it is that SA is like the bonus spell that each priest gets depending on what faith they join, so in the name of balance I'd let shamans keep sanctuary because it wouldn't make sense to me to let priests have protection, sanc, and 1 other bonus (yes I know the bonus spells don't have the same protections of SA) and then only let shamans have protection, SA, and no third spell. SA would need a large buff to make up the differance, or another additional spell would have to be given to shamans, a lesser version of sanctuary or something to make up the differance of the priests bonus spell and extra protection. Perhaps give SA an additional protection value of sanctuary on top of what it does already, but don't make it so it protects someone from being attacked.

Lastly, for everyone else, there should be an advantage for joining a faith and a disadvantage. One advantage of joining a faith is the obvious symbol stat bonus. I would also add another advantage and that would be that any potion brewed by your faiths priest would have some sort of beneficial affect. Maybe the heal spells that are brewed for you, or casted on you by the same faiths priest are a little bigger then normal or something else along those lines.

The disadvantage is that the said follower would have to use brewed items by their faiths priests only, and can not use anyone elses. This would be also the advantage for not being in a faith because people who are not in any faith would be allowed to use anyones brewed vials, but would not get that little extra bit to a heal that the devoted guy would, or he wouldn't get what ever other bonus someone comes up with that the devoted guy got.

Barbarians would be allowed to use anyone's brewed vials, but would receive a bonus if a shaman makes it. This is to make up for the lack of symbol stat bonus that following a faith gives. Barbarians would suffer from the same disadvantages as a devoted if shamans were given their own special symbol. If sanctuary is taken away from shamans and becomes priest only, barbarians would also lose the ability to have sanctuary casted on them ONLY if shaman spells are balanced out to make up the differance in the loss of sanctuary, such as in my example earlier.

I know I left out paladins and hellions in my post, but they would be sumed up with the priests and devoted in my ideas and explanations. This is just some thoughts I've had while this whole topic has gone round and round.

You all forget the eliteness of a full AC9 or even AC10 armor suit, with scripts on them.

Pantheists get one too, but that's just 1 suit for every pantheist in the realms. Religion sacred suits are not so easy for others to take though(because in most occassions all chars in one religion are not in conflict(Ain is an exception, and some other grey religions).

I forgot about the armor sets, so ya they would probably have to give shamans and barbs a set of their own in order to keep them happy, if they gave them their own faith tag anyways.

It could easily enough come from the same reason that spear of faith and holy word don't affect people of alignments that they're not supposed to. Even bolt of glory can be attached to this. Your god isn't an idiot and can tell the difference.

I could easily enough see it go something like this:

Perhaps a Religion: Ancestral would solve a lot of issues in SKs and separate those who are pantheists from those who are spiritualists. It would make a fine distinction among those who can/should use spirit aura and those who simply recognize all Gods.

Then perhaps spiritualists would be able to use spirit aura, while pantheists could use protection and not the opposite.

Also, it would practically add a player-run church of the spirits which would enhance RP than the easy solution of "Oh, I stay pantheist, I can use SA and protection and don't need to worry about a single thing". Then if you want to use SA, you will have to deal with the spiritual leaders of the church, high-shamans. You could get blemished like anyone else etc.

And it would indeed give shamans a power buff in practice.

I've seen barbarians join religions with good RP. What's the merit in forcing a ancestral religion tag on them?

I'm also opposed to a shaman religion hierarchy, primarily because it makes no IC sense. Each shaman gets his powers through his personal ancestors, not through a being represented by a high shaman. Nor are principled and diabolic shamans of different races likely to agree on much.

This is a balance issue largely related to tanking. I've no quarrel with protection or sanctuary becoming religion-only spells, provided shaman tanking ability is preserved (relative to non-shamans) and all religion possibilities are well balanced. I'm just not convinced any of these plans does that.

You missed my point the moment you used the word "force" them.

Barbarians, as much as ANY other class will have the option to remain pantheists, join a religion or join the ancestral faith.