Shattered Kingdoms

I believe a major playing factor is how the coup'd person's player reacts OOCly. In the instance I was thinking of when I posted, the player calmly posted on the cabal forum that there was RP, and due to it, an Imm should take her flag.

I guess it hadn't really occured to me that a person could be so pissed OOCly about it that they go to the Imms kicking and screaming. I'd expect that ICly, of course, but I forget that not everybody who plays remembers that it's just a game. (albeit an awesome game at that)

QFfT

Happened to me very recently: there was a ton of rp by the major people involved and it only took one person's ooc tantrum-like reaction to ruin it. Now, they don't even log on meanwhile there's a bunch of [REDACTED] play going on still as a result of that one breakdown.

It is just a game and if you can't rp reactions according to your characters rp then maybe you shouldn't join any groups.

For coups, learn from history: greater people than us have been trying to do whatever our characters attempt for quite some time, you know.

As for what's vaguely being referenced and discussed in appropriate OOC, removed contexts, I'd criticize your statement that "Not without imm support they don't," Drew. I'll highlight the important line between IMM support and IMM participation. "Support" never was a term used to describe a force that could lend an impetus to anything.

RP changes, true enough, but so do the phrases in the Goldberg Variations. There's an art to the fugue, and there's an art to Changing the RP of an organization. I dare say the reagents for a coup would be different each time one is attempted for reasons you yourself highlight, and all the support -- all the catalysts -- in the world can't make up for limiting reagents.

Calling it a "coup" and not something more like a "history," though, betrays a certain selfish disapproval of what came before your idea(s)... and our perspectives animate our characters, and other people's characters are entitled to draw conclusions about the character based on more than what the stenographer says. Many, rightfully, elect to go on the defensive. It is no violation when someone does not take your side, especially when they're given reason to, even if you don't want them to. Even if you think your reason could beat up their reason, provided both reasons exist and are wholesomely bred.

That's not to say it isn't fun to take a risk and try to shake things up, but it certainly makes just as little sense to think a change is self-validated by nature of being a change as it is to say a group dynamic is self-validated by its own existence. People mix their labor with the game-world and produce RP and, from this, a sense of ownership in their organizations and pride in their accomplishments. It is meant to be shared, and the stories are meant to be made, not told.

It makes plenty of sense, then, that what exists would have a certain tenacity based on the will by which it came to be: it is an error to think a coup is the only roleplayable option when faced with people you do not agree with. The "me or them" mentality is incendiary, and plenty of characters -- just like people in the real world -- don't give that kind of thing the time of day. Even a simple ultimatum is a risky, perilous weapon to draw.

To inject some Fantasy into the discussion, it takes a certain kind of player to pull off the Discord of Melkor, though. Don't be discouraged: it takes a healthy cynicism and acute sympathy to truly believe one would be as dumb as some for not taking advantage of others for being so dumb and survive an encounter with an in-tune Valar all the same.

Your criticisms of your failure in this thread lack a critical element of introspective analysis, Drew, and border on libel under some readings. I just didn't expect Rynusi to be one of the ones to point that out, of all people. But as always, we seem to appear to agree on the important points.

As for that Coup...

Good luck on your next.

As you know, I am not dancing on libel, I am straight up making the allegation that the character in question threw a temper tantrum and got what he wanted, and now that he doesn't even log on, the rest of us deal with the shitstorm he left behind.

And I am also not criticizing any failure--I haven't tried anything ic, i've been training skills for the past week. Yes, Imm support and immtervention ARE different and I mean support when I say support: if you rp the greatest feat in the game, with every character behind a movement, you can't remove a flag. The whole claim that what happened before was only because of immtervention is hysterical--you were a part of the three days of rp leading up to it, weren't you?

While your long-winded response is quaint in your method of covering up all the bs that has happened in the group being discussed, it is still just that, quaint--and we know what the Poet was talking about when he created the word, don't we? Despite your presumptuous and condescending discourse the fact remains that I was offering an opinion of the concept being discussed utilizing hands-on experience, however I have not attempted a coup... yet.

I'm not deleting, so good luck maintaining your position of leadership of the one-woman-show aka the Talons.

I believe the storm has passed. Most people I interact with has believed it passed. The only one still arguing the storm at all is the one who stands to gain from using it as a counterpoint.

I was a part of a process, and my character was ready to be handed a piece of paper to look at something on the table. That it never came to pass is a shame, as I was holding back a list of grievances with the idea and waiting for a polite moment for my character to express her concerns. That moment never came up before reactions were required. C'est la vie.

I said good luck on your next after bringing up a coup because I knew your character hadn't attempted one yet, Drew. Take care to understand even flowery words before responding to them -- I am not above admitting I've gotten the message wrong before, myself.

I would be sad if you deleted your character. I had to deal with Ilky telling me to delete when I didn't agree with her, and I've made it a personal goal to never do the same thing to anyone else.

I would welcome a chance to examine other exciting and dynamic roleplay oportunities, and there are recruitment efforts that already exist.

You are very good at portraying your perspective, but I'm not sure you step outside your own box enough for your own good. Just a friendly observation from someone looking forward to enjoying your presence more.

And for the record, Jenji's had a golden ticket back in since my character was told to deal with the issue. He's just not willing to take the terms as they have existed and will continue to consistently exist. That's not my problem, and its not your fault.

I was going to read the last few posts in this thread, then I changed my mind.

Good thought, I regret even opening this.

Ya, I've had to jump through hoops since the day it was suggested I roll a Talon, moreso than any player already in the Talon... Funny how those things happen.

Don't stay up on that cross too long, you might actually hurt yourself.

I wonder who suggested you rolled a Talon, though. Curious to be bringing that out like that.

You were the worst Talon ever, Big Daddy D.
You didn't jump through hoops so much as try to [REDACTED] at the hoops until they let you do whatever you wanted.

If you think I'm reading the five paragraph reports on whatever it is you two are talking about you're sorely mistaken, though.

Thank you for your opinions, they are heard and discounted.

On topic? How does a thread about leadership go to a thread gangbanging one of my chars again?

[edit] Parnys I dont know who you play but if it is who I think it is stfu... Let's not further derail this thread with how you are possibly the worst player ever, never mind the worst talon.