Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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Do you approve of this change?
No. It hurts gameplay. 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
No. It makes no freaking sense. 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
No. It hurts gameplay and makes no freaking sense. 24%  24%  [ 10 ]
Yes. It improves gameplay. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Yes. It makes sense. 24%  24%  [ 10 ]
Yes. It improves gameplay and makes sense, too! 24%  24%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 41
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Immortal

Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 8:16 am
Posts: 4124
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
SK Character: Achernar
I believe both of those are acceptable explanations. Either would make sense to me. Fact is that you just know certain things about people because they're somehow advertised. If people can't take the risk of being visible, how could they handle any additional responsibilities (powers)? Anything more given to tribunals would make them too powerful. Cabals have an incidental respone that can hold them accountable. Perhaps tribunals should instead have a constant method of being held accountable.

I don't care how much people accuse others of cheating or bad RP in the game players always catch it. Its not necessarily reported or even an issue because often peer pressure helps to weed out the bad apples. I have a rather high opinion of our playerbase despite their ability to find new avenues and threads of weakness in the game. I think that visible membership is something that will help hold all members accountable.

Who joins a tribunal at lower levels anyway? Either a vet making use of the law NPCs or immunity or a real newbie who doesn't understand the importance of being careful about protecting their membership or their character. How will making these folks visible harm them? Vets will either wait or find avenues of leveling quickly enough to avoid the dangers of being spam killed at low levels. Newbs will, unfortunately, die often. This won't affect them either way. Newbs might even join just to have that tag on their name.

Muds have been used to study social interaction. I believe that community based responsibility is very useful. Peer pressure works better than you think it does.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:53 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:34 am
Posts: 414
Achernar wrote:
I believe both of those are acceptable explanations. Either would make sense to me. Fact is that you just know certain things about people because they're somehow advertised. If people can't take the risk of being visible, how could they handle any additional responsibilities (powers)? Anything more given to tribunals would make them too powerful. Cabals have an incidental respone that can hold them accountable. Perhaps tribunals should instead have a constant method of being held accountable.

I don't care how much people accuse others of cheating or bad RP in the game players always catch it. Its not necessarily reported or even an issue because often peer pressure helps to weed out the bad apples. I have a rather high opinion of our playerbase despite their ability to find new avenues and threads of weakness in the game. I think that visible membership is something that will help hold all members accountable.

Who joins a tribunal at lower levels anyway? Either a vet making use of the law NPCs or immunity or a real newbie who doesn't understand the importance of being careful about protecting their membership or their character. How will making these folks visible harm them? Vets will either wait or find avenues of leveling quickly enough to avoid the dangers of being spam killed at low levels. Newbs will, unfortunately, die often. This won't affect them either way. Newbs might even join just to have that tag on their name.

Muds have been used to study social interaction. I believe that community based responsibility is very useful. Peer pressure works better than you think it does.

Honestly, I'm pretty much done arguing against this change. It was made to sound much worse than it was and, in all honesty, it's not really as huge a deal as it was made to seem. If your newbie is having trouble training in the Black Market, try introducing them to a non-lawzone area, or at least one you're not at war with. I've had no trouble training my characters up without once visiting the Black Market, or any other law zone. Try asking around IC, instead of relying on your OOC knowledge, since that'll usually introduce you to some neat places that you haven't thought of before.

And, in all honesty, the main buff that Tribunals need is RP-wise.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Implementor

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 8220
Location: Redwood City, California
Rennus_Dragonsbane wrote:
Achernar wrote:
That being said, the job of cabals IS secret influence.
Then get rid of CRS which forces cabal members to be known and public if they want to be able to defend their guardians?

The Freemasons are probably the closest thing I know to a real life cabal. If you had the aim of provoking them into revealing their membership CRS style, there are no shortage of HQ addresses available on the internet:
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/links/g ... lodges.htm


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:29 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 5522
Freemasons? Pffft! Check out some of these interesting irl ideological groups:

Far off in the distant province of Henan lies the Shaolin Monastery, seat of power of the Shaolin Buddhist Sect. With a rumored skill in transcendental martial arts, these monks meditate upon enlightenment and how to share this pure light with the world.

A lonely white structure looms near a modern-day jungle. It is the senate. Within its ancient walls looms an order dedicated to the light. It is the GOP. Armed with their rhetorical hammers, they ride out each day to smite evil wherever it may stand in the world, even when they are not popular. They are most active when they outnumber their opposition.

Within the ruined palace of the proud and noble Canadian government lurks a force sworn to do whatever is the opposite of the common consensus. Attempting to balance out parliament, the NDP acts by any means necessary, holding sway over the wild, uncharted corners of the great white north. Whether they are particularly evil is not known, but they will collaborate with even the likes of the sinister Bloc Quebecois to accomplish their goals.

Very little is known about White Wolf Games, and what little is known is only uttered in whispers. In their quest for perfection, LARPers have turned to Vampire: The Masquerade. Situated in shadow with a hint of evil, those who seek to benefit from these dark dungeons all too often find themselves the sacrifice instead.

Very little is really known about the internets. It is said that /b/ holds sway over a mysterious place, where things are not what they seem. Elsewhere in the world, /b/[REDACTED] have been accounted for a series of seemingly random tricks, events, and ambushes. They have never been caught, and their presence is revealed only when they wish it to. Their behavior could perhaps be best described as erratic, and they are just as prone to starting a troll thread as posting delicious copypasta. It would be foolhardy to
outguess them, as /b/'s actions are reliably unreliable.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 9:55 pm
Posts: 1365
It's ICly reasonable for all tribunal members to be known to other tribunals. Every kingdom has the capability of doing some minor espionage. If tribunal guards can recognize you as a member, surely some minor official knows enough to compromise your identity.

OOCly, one of the big downsides of being in a tribunal is that it's easy to harass. Any player with time on his hands can whip up some trivial reason to attack a city. Then the tribunal has to respond. If the attacker's goal is to win, he'll pick a time when the tribunal doesn't have enough power to respond effectively. This gets old fast, and it shouldn't be encouraged by forcing tribunal flags to be visible all the time. Let there be at least -some- effort required to judge the tribunal's strength.

BTW, I've played characters who join tribunals when RP indicates, instead of when they hit Master+. I don't see much evidence that roleplay-centric characters need additional PK burdens.

The guard change is fine, but please don't go overboard in forcing tribunals public.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Gold Donor

Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 11:20 pm
Posts: 2109
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
I just had it happen to me for the first time, and I love it. (IC it is aggravating to my character, but OOC it is great!)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:04 am
Posts: 3066
SK Character: RAWR!
Baldric wrote:
cabals get to stay secretive.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

*breath*

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:







:drunk:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 861
Except MC. *Cue Price is right fail music*

Bum bum ba buuum... bwaaaowww.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:46 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:14 pm
Posts: 82
Turon wrote:
Except MC. *Cue Price is right fail music*

Bum bum ba buuum... bwaaaowww.


Which is kind of ironic, since the helpfile specifically says they are secret. Whereas... the all the others (with the exception of the druids) do not.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:58 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 861
It is completely ridiculous that some apprentice I induct into the MC is attacked by Taslamaran guards on sight, but Eryni and Rexnarh, known hammer members, can run around Menegroth on spirit steeds looking for cheap kills like there's no tomorrow and my guards don't even bat an eye.


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