Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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Do you approve of this change?
No. It hurts gameplay. 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
No. It makes no freaking sense. 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
No. It hurts gameplay and makes no freaking sense. 24%  24%  [ 10 ]
Yes. It improves gameplay. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Yes. It makes sense. 24%  24%  [ 10 ]
Yes. It improves gameplay and makes sense, too! 24%  24%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 41
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Dulrik wrote:
The fact that anyone voted that it makes no sense indicates a serious lack of understanding about what a tribunal is supposed to represent.

For me, the most important aspect of the change was to begin promoting the very real difference between cabals and tribunals. The two of them (and religions as well) tend to get lumped together under the common header of 'factions' for convenience, but each of them are (and should be) very different animals.

Despite the difference in wording and duties, it has become obvious that people do not understand that. To reiterate, a 'cabal', by the very definition of the word (look it up if you are unfamiliar) means secret organization. On the other hand, a tribunal is a group that administers justice and the word carries strong overtones of being putting on display for public opinion. You might argue (such as someone did recently about CHARM person), that there was nothing in the help files to explain this distinction. My response is that this is a text-only game. All we have are words to begin with, so you have to pay attention to the definitions of the labels being used.

As far as SK is concerned, tribunals are the public police and military forces of their kingdom and are directly accountable to both their ruler and citizens. So in this respect, tribunals are the exact opposite of a cabal, despite their both being 'factions'.

This change is intended to be the first step in making that very clear. That is also why the change does not apply to cabal members. There was some debate over the idea of also making the tribunal label public on the WHO list, but that was deemed a bit too jarring to take as a first step. That doesn't mean we won't do it at some point. Regardless, the in-character interpretation of joining a tribunal from now on (as it was intended to be previously) is that your membership is a matter of public record.

Therefore, whenever it is practically possible, NPCs will automatically react appropriately to a tribunal member's presence as defined by the diplomatic relationship with a neighboring kingdom.

I am sure there will be debate about other results of this change, unintended or otherwise, and what kind of minor tweaks should be made to promote fairness to newbies. I'll leave that for the other threads.


MAYBE ITS YOU WHO MISUNDERSTANDS. DID YOU EVER THINK OF THAT?!

LOLZ, I'M THINKING OUTSIDE the BOXES.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Though you gain points for thinking outside the box, you lose points for making the box smaller in order to do so.

It is a bitter day for Gryffindor.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Orac wrote:
Turon wrote:
Incidentally, since being banished Ibizlizil hasn't returned to the Empire, and I don't blame him either.


Ibizlizil hasn't returned anywhere. He's completely inactive. It has nothing to do with being banished.


He was around long enough to gank someone in another enemy city that he wasn't outlawed in.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:54 pm 
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I haven't seen any great difference in the quality of city PK since bounty NPCs. Attackers still come with overwhelming force. There's just less silly city raids, which is reason to be thankful. Really, not all players want to do PK continually, even if they are in a tribunal.

City PvP also seems to work decently if you're not a major outlaw. In particular, PK for a burning RP reason still works great. Heck, if it's interesting RP, you might find the opposing tribunal leader OOCly offering some pardons and paroles.

I can see wanting to make some law code changes so sentences don't stack up so much for self-defense. But bounty NPCs have been a good addition to the game.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Location: I'm in a glass case of emotion!
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Forsooth wrote:
Heck, if it's interesting RP, you might find the opposing tribunal leader OOCly offering some pardons and paroles.


Come again?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:29 am 
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Forsooth wrote:
Heck, if it's interesting RP, you might find the opposing tribunal leader OOCly offering some pardons and paroles.


wait wait wait.

I had my ways, but they were not that blatantly shenanigan.

Surely, I misunderstand you?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:36 am 
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Location: Witness Protection
SK Character: Cyndane - Talys
Ealuriel lives in Zhenshi now. I win SK.

Considering joining the Talon.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:19 am 
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Well, my scrupulous tribunal leader couldn't ICly help an evil criminal. He'd have tacked on another 100 years if he could.

But OOCly, I saw someone who was doing great RP, and who took harm to his character in the process. Why would I want to OOCly punish that with a full jail sentence? I made up a plot line. Given the city and the crimes, it was reasonable that part of the government might be sympathetic. Some bureaucrat could "accidentally" send a release order. Had this been found out ICly, this plot could have been a lot of fun. But that wasn't the motivation.

Factions have all sorts of leeway to make the game more entertaining. OOCly, that's their job. The average city attacker just won't see such things, because it doesn't take long for tribunals to tire of regular attacks with no significant RP.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:28 am 
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Forsooth wrote:
Well, my scrupulous tribunal leader couldn't ICly help an evil criminal. He'd have tacked on another 100 years if he could.

But OOCly, I saw someone who was doing great RP, and who took harm to his character in the process. Why would I want to OOCly punish that with a full jail sentence? I made up a plot line. Given the city and the crimes, it was reasonable that part of the government might be sympathetic. Some bureaucrat could "accidentally" send a release order. Had this been found out ICly, this plot could have been a lot of fun. But that wasn't the motivation.


Yeahhh, but NPCs don't send the pardon order. Trib leaders do.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:34 am 
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That's quite clever, actually. I think it could be played very well as a bureaucracy failure.


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