Shattered Kingdoms

Ooookay. So, IMO, the problem with Sorcs being totally overpowered isn't etherealform/how hard to kill they are.

The problem is Charm Person. And not Charm Person being used on PCs.

The problem is that a sorc gets to walk around with a GM Barbarian. All they have to do is give that NPC a weapon, and it can kill most PC warrior characters in the game. And that's before you factor in the sorc casting/zapping.

Honestly, your 'average' PC warrior will flat out lose to Prince Lathron, if Lathron has a weapon/shield. The fact that it takes a well played and well prepped PC warrior to kill an NPC who has nothing but a weapon (which most sorcs can get in abundance) that is dragged around as a pet all day by various sorcs is [REDACTED]. And the sorc is very rarely at risk while doing this.

Now, /what/ to do about this, I dunno. But something needs to be done about the fact that a GM PC warrior has to be prepped to the nine-hells to fight a charmed NPC warrior that is easier to replace than a storebought pet.

So what you are essentially saying, is that it isn't an inherent problem with the spell but rather an issue of NPCs being too powerful?

If so, this is a rather simple case of:



But I'm not convinced it is necessary. Though Lathron could probably use a wimp, I'll agree with that.

Maybe make charm more like dominate, except it can be used on slightly higher level NPCs than dominate, but not GMs?

It is ridiculous that sorcs can have charms that can just shred PCs like that. Some sorcs can tote around two though which is...if I'm doing the math right...twice as bad?

Prince Lathron does need wimped. His auto haste and auto sanctuary flags need removed. I'll admit that this isn't going to affect sorcerers since the class comes auto loaded with haste, but it will require a mana drop to buff the NPC.

Fatigue should have it's wait time cut in half. It's absolutely [REDACTED] that a sorcerer can charm an npc, it be better in every way conceivable to a pc in a bare melee battle, and the pc be made to suffer through the effects of fatigue. This is one of the changes that has actually hurt the game, but I'm sure it's necessary to prevent massive hoarding from sorcerers.

There should also be a technical limitation that only allows a sorcerer to have only one charmed minion at a time. This can prevent the usage of fly by charm ganks where a sorcerer runs in, casts charm, and leaves with their victim.

The success rate should also be lowered.

Lathron is stronger than the other charms. Is it just the auto haste/sance? I dunno. But, the fact that a merc/barb/swashie in enchanted armor/etc struggles to beat Losquaty/Lathron/elder giant/Bill/etc is silly to me, considering generally the sorc didn't do anything except give them a weapon, cast haste/gs, and maybe brandish/zap sanctuary and armor on them.

The innate 'armor rating' or 'hp' of charmable NPCs needs to be looked at I think. That's a possible suggestion from me. I'm not sure what else to say to do about it. Prince Lathron with a shield/weapon will tank better than just about every PC in the game. And if he DOES happen to die...It doesn't matter. The sorc bails, and spends 10 minutes to replace/reacquire the 2 items they lost. Jeez, I used him to tank the Dreamscape numerous times.

I know it's not just toughness from them being barbs. A naked PC barb can't tank crap.

I had no problem taking Antiira's Lathron with Paddah, I'd hardly ever go below 75ish

Oen thing I've noticed is if you give any NPC a weapon, it just about tears your head off. So much in fact that a lot of NPCs you have to avoid levelling on if they have weapons. (An example is bastion of light. The NPCs there all have spears / flails / shields etc) These NPCs aren't unstoppable but they hurt enough that levelling isn't efficient at all..Just one thing I"ve noticed.

You also had scripted gear and buffs out the wazoo...No offense but your average player doesn't stand much of a chance.

This would help greatly, along with wimping Lathron.

I should add that while playing Hagrel, I never actually had much of a problem killing NPCs. I also didn't make a habit of taking more than a few minutes to buff, meaning that at the very most I would have haste/giant strength/frenzy/armor/protection (occasionally spirit aura). However, I was also a hammer merc, and a great deal of the NPCs I fought most of the time belonged to dark-aura tribunals, which meant that, for example, I never found the giant barbarian to be particularly challenging. I also don't think I went one-to-one with any particularly skillful sorcs, so I never had to handle Losquaty, Bill, or Lathron on my own, so my experience is of limited use.

Peso. Get out of this thread.

A charmed NPC warrior with nothing more than a weapon really SHOULDN'T stand a chance against a top-tier PC warrior.