Shattered Kingdoms

...Who waits to use cleave? I'm not sure 1 round into the fight qualifies as waiting.

You CAN'T use it unless there is no fighting going on. And given the advent of bounty NPCs/guards/etc, that means it's unusable outside of arranged duels.

Smurf, you really should remove yourself from discussions involving the mechanics of the game.

(On a side note...cleave doesn't do any more damage if you wait to use it, lol, wtf?)

I'm pretty sure what he was refering to was removing the need to get a crit roll on the cleave check to one-shot someone in the opposing formation by just allowing your groupmates to lump on a bunch of melee damage and then finishing off the target's last 20-30% of health with a cleave to the head.

What.

Okay, so we need to uh, remove anything that is capable of depleting the last 20% of a character's hps.

Really though, I don't see why anyone would do that.

Common sense kind of says that you'd be much more effective if you used cleave, then started getting your melee attacks and were able to cast spells.

Hey, I don't agree with him, I was just clearing up what seemed to be a misunderstanding on your part.

EDIT: As to your edit, I've seen the tactic used to some effect in large group PK. It's viable if there's a strong need to take down one member of the opposing force with focused fire quickly. Situational, but viable.

Also, you uh...can straight damage kill someone with cleave without it being a crit roll. That's a thing.

There isn't anything to agree or disagree with. I wasn't making a suggestion or providing an explanation. Wish you wouldn't jump down my throat.

I was simply devils advocating. I've never played a hellion (which makes me less informed but also objective) but the way it was being used seems counter to their roleplay and the helpfile.

As the /Hellion's/ initial attack. That actually seems to fit perfectly with the way Hellions are, lol.

And yes, I am pretty sure you were making a suggestion.

I agree. But that's not likely to happen against a merc or barb (this also being the only way to ensure you don't get counterstrike killed by a cleave on a barb).

Except that's not "the way it was being used." Only a handful of newbs used cleave as a finishing move instead of an opener.

It would be good if cleave and <Hammer Skill> could still be used as an entry point into combat regardless of whether combat is already going on. Otherwise those skills will have lost the vast majority of their application.

You're choosing one way to read an ambiguous sentence. That's all i'm going to say on the matter. I don't see this change as a nerf to the cleave skill.

The only suggestion I made was that you stop whining.